HYBINO Phenotype Discussion

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

This reminds me of what goes on back home, which is exactly why I left the management of a forum and online community.

I don't know R.Doc in person, but he has given me any reason what so ever not to trust him. He also seems to know his stuff better than most.

Mistakes are within the realm of possibility to be sure, but to start a debate that questions the seller's integrity or knowledge in an ad is rude. The manner which was used is also presumptuous- I can see the same picture on 4 different screens and let me tell you, I'll see 4 different snakes every time- according to the quality of the screen and settings.

The very fact that so many question marks and doubts were thrown here can dissuade people from buying from him.

If for some reason you are in doubt, you can contact said seller and explain your concern. You also should not present subjective perceptions as facts "their eyes are not red"- YOU don't see red, that doesn't mean that that's the truth.

It is unfair to question a breeder's reputation in the manner that was condoned here. Not when it started as an ad, not when the breeder was not asked in person and had a chance to reply.

That's the point I was trying to make, but I do believe you said it better! Lovely word usage.

I don't think anyone (at least I'm not) is saying don't ask questions. I think they're saying go about it with more tact. The question was asked, it was answered, and then it got harped on and turned into a huge discussion! The answer was not trusted, no matter what Doc said, nobody took his word. To me that's the same as calling him a lying ignorant buffoon. Were those specific words used? No. They didn't need to be, the insinuation was there, even if it was not intended.

The problem with written words is that the tone and meaning can be hard to convey, and can be misinterpreted. I can state that I meant no insult to Doc. In my mind I'm absoluetly sure that Barbra didn't either.
But to be honest, when there are questions about genetics, someone's (anyone's) word isn't really satisfying, so photos of parents, siblings etc are far more useful.
Rich quoted many times how many surprises come along with seemingly 'normal' hypos. Now traits like redcoat and strawberry are being worked on, as well as christmas hypo, ultra, there's also the motley/mockley traits, seeing if the pattern disruption that causes the different looks to the dorsal and ventral patterns are always linked or not. To a geek like me, seeing a different look arouses my curiosity, and hearing the background of the parentage or other breedings involving them is interesting.
For anyone who doubts my intentions or is irritated by this, I'm truly sorry. I find corn genetics fascinating. If I didn't I'd have stuck with having a couple of pretty pets instead of trying out my own breeding projects.

Originally Posted by diamondlil

The problem with written words is that the tone and meaning can be hard to convey, and can be misinterpreted. I can state that I meant no insult to Doc. In my mind I'm absoluetly sure that Barbra didn't either.
But to be honest, when there are questions about genetics, someone's (anyone's) word isn't really satisfying, so photos of parents, siblings etc are far more useful.
Rich quoted many times how many surprises come along with seemingly 'normal' hypos. Now traits like redcoat and strawberry are being worked on, as well as christmas hypo, ultra, there's also the motley/mockley traits, seeing if the pattern disruption that causes the different looks to the dorsal and ventral patterns are always linked or not. To a geek like me, seeing a different look arouses my curiosity, and hearing the background of the parentage or other breedings involving them is interesting.
For anyone who doubts my intentions or is irritated by this, I'm truly sorry. I find corn genetics fascinating. If I didn't I'd have stuck with having a couple of pretty pets instead of trying out my own breeding projects.

Dear, I think it was very obvious that your questions came from genuine curiosity. I also know you well enough to know you didn't mean anything by it... my posts weren't directly aimed at you.
Just as you said, our words can be misinterpreted, God knows mine were as well- second language and all that.

That is why we should at least try and see what are the possibly implications of our messages... because, in an ad such as this, after so many question marks rose as it is... no matter how polite my post may be, if it still even hints of doubt, it will seem aggressive to the breeder who posted the ad.

You were at a disadvantage even before you clicked "submit reply" because of the way others chose to articulate themselves prior to your post.

It is easier for me to see the OP's claims because I had to go through a far more violent chain of messages- none of which were really based on anything but nonsense. Here, at least, people actually backed themselves up with facts.
I wasn't the one who was attacked, but a friend of mine.

Sorry to come in on the Tail End of all this. I hope the pics of the Parents will put this all to rest. Sorry if I was offended by the oppositions in the thread. I think my issue was more about how it was worded than anything else.
Now that the Genetics of the Snakes has been confirmed, maybe somebody will buy the rest of them now. Thanks to everybody who chimed in on the discussion. I never expected mediocre snakes like these to raise so many Hackles.
Just goes to show that you never know what to expect.
Peace.

Doc

Mediocre? They are lovely! I'd get a pair in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the shipping costs!

Doc, I really respect you chiming in now the way you do. I might have been a little more precise in wording my question(s), but people thinking the worst of my intentions made me insist more then I would have without these accusations. I'm very curious to see more photo's, thanks in advance

Originally Posted by reptiledoc

Sorry to come in on the Tail End of all this. I hope the pics of the Parents will put this all to rest. Sorry if I was offended by the oppositions in the thread. I think my issue was more about how it was worded than anything else.
Now that the Genetics of the Snakes has been confirmed, maybe somebody will buy the rest of them now. Thanks to everybody who chimed in on the discussion. I never expected mediocre snakes like these to raise so many Hackles.
Just goes to show that you never know what to expect.
Peace.

Doc

If we have learned anything from all this, I hope we have at least learned to in the future, send these types of 'Inquiries' or 'Challenges' via PM so they can be settled without Tarnishing the For Sale Ad a possibly scaring off potential buyers.

Originally Posted by reptiledoc

If we have learned anything from all this, I hope we have at least learned to in the future, send these types of 'Inquiries' or 'Challenges' via PM so they can be settled without Tarnishing the For Sale Ad a possibly scaring off potential buyers.

I for one am a big believer in this. I as well have had my ads taken over cause someone thought they knew what they were talking about. Then after many people chiming in just like here the OP (myself) was proven right. A for sale ad is for only one thing to sell some animals. The only questions that should come up on a for sale ad is: what is the hatch date?, what is the sex?. what is the weight and length?, what is shipping to $%&*@?, what are the parents? and so on. If you have a debate about a animal then you PM the seller about it. That is the way it should be done there is no other alternative.

I did purchase a 09 Hybino from him. He looks way different from the snakes in question. He is a very nice bright orange.

Now even though I stand my ground on my beliefs on this matter I am in no way taking Doc's side. I for one will never do business with him again.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...38#post1098238

Originally Posted by Reptileman81

I did purchase a 09 Hybino from him. He looks way different from the snakes in question. He is a very nice bright orange.

Now even though I stand my ground on my beliefs on this matter I am in no way taking Doc's side. I for one will never do business with him again.

I guess everyone has bad dealings here and there... some folks are never happy. Though I'm interested to know why you feel that way?

There is a short cut on my last post to the reason why.