• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

religion and hybrids

A lot of religious people from many different religions object to things such as GMOs, cloning, etc. because they feel we are "playing God". Some object to IVF and other forms of assisted human reproduction for the same reason. I'm sure some would object to hybrids as well.

Personally, I don't see any more "playing God" in putting together 2 animals of different species and letting them conceive naturally than I do in putting together 2 animals of the same species. We are still controlling who breeds with who.

There are a lot of laws within the Jewish religion that have to do with keeping things separate, such as the meat & dairy thing and others that have been pointed out in this thread, and at least one more I'm aware of that hasn't been mentioned, namely several difference circumstances in which men & women keep separate from each other. However, as far as I'm aware, there are specific reasons for each and every one of those, rather than a general overriding "keep things separate" rule.

So is there a rule about hybrids? I had no idea and googled it to find out. Apparently, yes. Leviticus 19:19.
You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with another kind: you shall not sow your field with mixed seed: neither shall a garment of mixed linen and wool come upon you.
Click to expand...

This, however, does not mean that all Jews feel this way. The "two Jews, 3 opinions" thing is probably true not only of Jews, but of pretty much all religions. Very few people agree on exactly the same thing by the time you consider all a religion encompasses.

I wouldn't be surprised if you asked a traditional rabbi (Orthodox I think?) about hybridizing snakes if you were told the entire question is moot because a Jew shouldn't be keeping/propagating snakes of any kind due to the garden of Eden story. I'm pretty sure that is one of the ones that is in the Torah as well as the Christian old testament.

I believe the unleavened bread thing is specific to Passover, and does not apply year round. It is definitely true that Jews no longer sacrifice because the Temple no longer exists. That's "THE Temple". I have heard Jews refer to their house of worship and or services as "temple", so the confusion is understandable.

Disclaimers: I'm not a Jew. I'm not any sort of religious expert. I just found it an interesting subject. Hope I don't offend anyone.
 
You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with another kind: you shall not sow your field with mixed seed: neither shall a garment of mixed linen and wool come upon you. Good beginning for discussion. There are so many iffs while I can keep things seperate: What about birds sewing seeds in the garden. Would grafting trees be questioned? From a utilitarian standpoint caring for wool/linen garment is tricky, so is the rule more utilitarian. Maybe the rule is mixing fibers of animal and plant???
As for animals breeding Elk breed cattle all the time here, not by choice but the bull elk come down and get in the cattle pasture.
Many people fear snakes as evil/demonic and I guess some of those people are religous, some are non-religous. Some people think snakes are just wrong as pets. My sister is sure the garter snakes in our yard are after her and will attack, her friend thinks I'm strange because I like snakes.
For those who watch Survivor do you ever notice at the 'dun dun duh' moment they show a snake of some sort. What is that about?
Maybe we have free will a brain and opposing thumb so we can advance, not as playing god, but using what some think god gave us. Since I question so much including organized religion and god, it is my hope we continue to use these things not only for us but our future.
I think discussions like this are wonderful and make me use my brain.
 
I love to hear folks discuss religious beliefs, it's that plus the history that fascinates me. That we're all adults and can keep it civil is (should be) a given :)
 
susang said:
You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with another kind: you shall not sow your field with mixed seed: neither shall a garment of mixed linen and wool come upon you. Good beginning for discussion. There are so many iffs while I can keep things seperate: What about birds sewing seeds in the garden. Would grafting trees be questioned? From a utilitarian standpoint caring for wool/linen garment is tricky, so is the rule more utilitarian. Maybe the rule is mixing fibers of animal and plant???
As for animals breeding Elk breed cattle all the time here, not by choice but the bull elk come down and get in the cattle pasture.
Many people fear snakes as evil/demonic and I guess some of those people are religous, some are non-religous. Some people think snakes are just wrong as pets. My sister is sure the garter snakes in our yard are after her and will attack, her friend thinks I'm strange because I like snakes.
For those who watch Survivor do you ever notice at the 'dun dun duh' moment they show a snake of some sort. What is that about?
Maybe we have free will a brain and opposing thumb so we can advance, not as playing god, but using what some think god gave us. Since I question so much including organized religion and god, it is my hope we continue to use these things not only for us but our future.
I think discussions like this are wonderful and make me use my brain.
Click to expand...

see now that i am remembering this frank did say that grafting was immoral. now I need to know which sect he belongs to.

When I tell people I keep snakes most freak out about it and hate them.

As stated I am christian so for me this makes sense that people act like this, but what I ask is this. was the snake possessed into doing this.

also, as a side note I think its interesting to see that Adam and Eve make cloths from a fig tree.

The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

When god places the skin on adam and eve he is covering there sin with blood.


I also wonder if there are other regions that have history and teachings about snakes.

I have heard that certain Native American tribes say that-

a snakes has two tongues and tells two tales
 
kc261 said:
A lot of religious people from many different religions object to things such as GMOs, cloning, etc. because they feel we are "playing God". Some object to IVF and other forms of assisted human reproduction for the same reason. I'm sure some would object to hybrids as well.
Click to expand...

cornbreadandmilk said:
see now that i am remembering this frank did say that grafting was immoral.
Click to expand...

Yet food is not labelled as to whether those apples or oranges or tomato/potatos or whatever came from grafted root stock. I guess synthetic pest control (petro-chemicals) are too new a product, so there's no mention of mixing chemicals with food in texts of old.

If one crosses a lemon with a pomelo, grapefruit happens.

Pure Ascorbic Acid which is generally used for food supplements and in foods (labelled "with added Vitamin C") is generally NOT from a natural source. It is synthetised by a chemical reaction, sometimes also by using genetically modified organisms.

Amendment 1 of the US Constitution is about freedom of religion, not sure where I'm going with this thought. Thanks for the brain candy.


crotalis40741 said:
Ok who made popcorn? I have slim jims and dew.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a recipe for shooting my lunch before breakfast, thanks for that little bit of vomit creeping up my throat. Two herpers three opinions.
 
dave partington said:
Yet food is not labelled as to whether those apples or oranges or tomato/potatos or whatever came from grafted root stock. I guess synthetic pest control (petro-chemicals) are too new a product, so there's no mention of mixing chemicals with food in texts of old.

If one crosses a lemon with a pomelo, grapefruit happens.

Pure Ascorbic Acid which is generally used for food supplements and in foods (labelled "with added Vitamin C") is generally NOT from a natural source. It is synthetised by a chemical reaction, sometimes also by using genetically modified organisms.

Amendment 1 of the US Constitution is about freedom of religion, not sure where I'm going with this thought. Thanks for the brain candy.




Sounds like a recipe for shooting my lunch before breakfast, thanks for that little bit of vomit creeping up my throat. Two herpers three opinions.
Click to expand...


great point dave! it is very hard to keep things separated this day in age.

I think there are rules concerning sins you have committed unintentional and unwittingly there dont carry the same weight.

I was also thinking about the fact the shirts are labeled 100% cotton

there could be several reasons for this but it also seems useful.

also I was thinking about interracial marriages.

but Joseph marries outside of his race and religion, but she makes a conversion to Judaism



(Genesis 41:45). The pharaoh gave Asenath to Joseph for his wife; Genesis doesn't reveal how old Asenath was when she married Joseph, but he was thirty.

Egyptian land at that time was fertile, harvests were good, and food was plentiful. Asenath, whose name means “gift of the sun god,” bore Joseph two sons. He named the firstborn Manasseh, “For God, said he, hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house” (Genesis 41:51)
 
Pharaoh gave Joseph the name Zaphenath-Paneah and gave him Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, to be his wife. And Joseph went throughout the land of Egypt.

Genesis 41:45
 
What about before the Bible, what about the parts of the Bible taken out, the gnostic gospels? Even before Buddists, Tibetin, Hindus do they have laws that would cover interbreeding corn snakes. How did these peoples feel about snakes as evil, as good, as a symbol.
 
crotalis40741 said:
Once bobology was a big deal lol eh the old days on here lol
Click to expand...

So ok bobbyoueminance when you set the guidlines for Bobology how did you Oh! emminant one deal with the snake and hybrids. I don't just want any that laws of bobology I want your views. In Bobology land are snakess to be feared or revered.
 
susang said:
So ok bobbyoueminance when you set the guidlines for Bobology how did you Oh! emminant one deal with the snake and hybrids. I don't just want any that laws of bobology I want your views. In Bobology land are snakess to be feared or revered.
Click to expand...

In bobology all are welcome lol we sent our most not so smart profit to find anything left pure in this world and he came back empty handed. lol
 
The Torah forbids hybrids, but what is a hybrid then?

The Torah do not forbid breeding dogs to cats as that give no offspring.
Related animals like donkeys and horses are forbidden to breed in Torah.

Science change the line between species and subspecies time after time as well as the definition of what a species is. So, science is no good as a guide for not breeding hybrids.

I think the best is not to breed anything together that would not breed in nature.
There are natural intergrades and hybrids within panterophis in nature, so that can not be very bad i captivity.
There are extremely few natural hybrids of Pantheropis with kingsnakes, milksnakes and gophersnakes, so those kind of hybrids should be avoided in captivity as well.

Just my personal opinion.
 
Hybrids are creatures like gorgons, nagi, Lilith, basilisk, cockatrice, etc. Everything else is just opinion. I think one should leave religion out of it when it comes to hybridizing as religions are just like opinions. Many people have them and they always seem to differ otherwise we would have just one world religion.
 
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v3/n1/zonkeys-ligers-wholphins

"The first thing that needs to be addressed is “what is a kind?” Often, people are confused into thinking that a “species” is a “kind.” But this isn’t necessarily so. A species is a man-made term used in the modern classification system. And frankly, the word species is difficult to define, whether one is a creationist or not!"

http://christiananswers.net/q-crs/baraminology.html
"In addition, Adam would learn something about God--the Designer. There in the creation was an expression of the Lord’s handiwork. After Adam discovered nature he never would be the same again. The stars, the animals, the plants--all were part of God’s creation."

With hybrids, god is no longer the designer, but instead, man has become the designer.
But was this not gods plan?
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" Gen. 1:26

"What does the word kind mean?

Since two of each kind of land animal (and seven of some) were brought aboard the Ark for the purpose of preserving their offspring upon the earth (Genesis 7:3), it seems clear that a “kind” represents the basic reproductive boundary of an organism. That is, the offspring of an organism is always the same kind as its parents, even though it may display considerable variation."
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v5/n2/variety-within-kinds

Is a hybrid that is capable of reproducing not clearly a member of the same kind? Were we not given dominion over cattle and every creeping thing? Do we not claim dominion when we breed like kind to like kind? If god wanted it to be otherwise he had the omniscience to know what would happen and the power (omnipotence) to change this simple thing to not allow like kind to breed with like kind.

If a snake can breed with another snake and produce fertile offspring then they were designed to do just that and who am I to question intelligent design by an omnipotent (all powerful) and omniscient (all knowing) being?
Of course, perhaps we are all just caught up in the matrix and none of this is real.... The reality is there is no spoon. There is no corn snake.... just our perception that they are real?

Is God willing to prevent hybrids, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh hybrids? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
 
If you are as you stated an atheist why do you quote the bible? From a scientific standpoint one male and one female of any species would become extinct.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top