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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

PILE-O LAVAS & LAVA CINDERS !!
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:08 PM   #51
Walter Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
I assume you mean if all the cinder offspring are male? If all the cinder offspring are male, it means the female had the cinder mutation on her Z chromosome and the wild type allele on her W chromosome. Thus, all the males should be cinder and all the females should be het cinder on their Z chromosome. So the NON cinder offspring will all be female unless there is a crossover.
Yes, that's what I mean.

SO, if this is the case then that means my DAME: Het Cinder has to have the Cinder mutation on the Z chromosome due to the outcome of my breeding correct ??

If so knowing that, then using her to a SIRE: Het Cinder male should give a 50/50 sex ratio to the HOMO Cinder offspring.........is that right ??

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 09:13 PM   #52
DuxorW
Unfortunately no, males are ZZ and females are ZW, so if the cinder mutation is on her Z chromosome and you mate her to a het cinder male, half the males will be cinder (the ones that inherited the mutant Z from their fathers and the Z from their mother) and the non cinder males should be hets because of the normal Z from their father and the mutant Z from their mother.

All the females received their W chromosome from their mother. Absent a crossover event, this W chromosome does not have the cinder mutation on it. Half the female offspring will be het cinder(if they get the mutant Z from dad) and half will not even carry it (if they get he wild type Z from dad).

So 25% male cinder 25% male het cinder 25% female het cinder 25% female homozygous wild type, unless there are crossovers during meiosis in the mother.
 
Old 06-17-2014, 09:19 PM   #53
Walter Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
Unfortunately no, males are ZZ and females are ZW, so if the cinder mutation is on her Z chromosome and you mate her to a het cinder male, half the males will be cinder (the ones that inherited the mutant Z from their fathers and the Z from their mother) and the non cinder males should be hets because of the normal Z from their father and the mutant Z from their mother.

All the females received their W chromosome from their mother. Absent a crossover event, this W chromosome does not have the cinder mutation on it. Half the female offspring will be het cinder(if they get the mutant Z from dad) and half will not even carry it (if they get he wild type Z from dad).

So 25% male cinder 25% male het cinder 25% female het cinder 25% female homozygous wild type, unless there are crossovers during meiosis in the mother.
Ok, gottcha.

I tell ya, this is VERY interesting stuff, even though I don't understand it 100%, but I am trying to do so.

I just know after the breedings with my Cinder lines over the past couple years, I did notice SOMETHING going on with the sex ratios and didn't think it was just bad luck OR Murphy at play, especially at this years breeding point.

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 09:22 PM   #54
DuxorW
Yeah, hopefully this can help some. As long as your female is homozygous cinder your sex ratios should be even. This makes a female peppermint het caramel very useful if you want to make female buttermints!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 09:23 PM   #55
kc261
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
Yes I have some ideas about a better explanation for the banana morph and if I clarify it I will post in the miscellaneous forum.
Awesome. I'll be looking forward to reading that. Pls send me a PM or something if you remember when you post it to be sure I don't miss it.
 
Old 06-17-2014, 09:23 PM   #56
DuxorW
Quote:
I tell ya, this is VERY interesting stuff, even though I don't understand it 100%, but I am trying to do so.
I confused myself multiple times, and genetics is my job!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 09:38 PM   #57
Walter Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
Yeah, hopefully this can help some. As long as your female is homozygous cinder your sex ratios should be even. This makes a female peppermint het caramel very useful if you want to make female buttermints!
LOL.........Gottcha.
The only thing is apparently I can't produce a female for myself

I really appreciate you coming here and taking the time to explain this to try and help us figure this out.
I think I have a small grasp of it..........um, maybe..............LOL

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 09:46 PM   #58
DuxorW
Do you have any female peppermints to make some from? I might have to hook my female peppermint up to a buttermint to make some female peppermint het caramels now that they are so valuable, lol!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 09:57 PM   #59
Walter Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuxorW View Post
Do you have any female peppermints to make some from? I might have to hook my female peppermint up to a buttermint to make some female peppermint het caramels now that they are so valuable, lol!
No, I sure don't.

Here is a question for ya, say I breed my Buttermint male to a female that does not carry the Cinder gene AT ALL.

How would those F1 "HET" Cinders fall into play as far as the sex ratio they would produce??

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Old 06-17-2014, 10:03 PM   #60
kc261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Smith View Post
LOL.........Gottcha.
The only thing is apparently I can't produce a female for myself

I really appreciate you coming here and taking the time to explain this to try and help us figure this out.
I think I have a small grasp of it..........um, maybe..............LOL

Walter
BOUT' CORNS !!
Nah... all you have to do is produce LOTS of cinders until you finally get one that crosses over to the W chromosome. It's rare, but since female cinders do exist, it happens. Or at least it has happened once, and all the rest of the females descend from her. So that means it happens at least once in....how many cinders have been produced so far?

Probably much easier to just buy a female cinder.
 

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