hybrids vs. nonhybrids

Originally Posted by ForkedTung

I agree, How are you supposed to know what questions to ask when you don't know what questions to ask? Regardless of how anyone feels about it, it's unfortunate but I don't think that most americans research their purchases, it's usually a buy first ask questions later consumer culture.Like KJUN pointed out earlier a jungle corn is NOT a cornsnake, and should NEVER be labelled as one.

How hard is this:

"OOOH that's pretty what is that?"
" Well that's what some people call a jungle corn, but it's actually a hybrid?"
painless.

That is why they should do their "home work"

Why is this that breeder at fault. When you sell your babies do you explain the hole "how to take care of their new corn" with the new buyer or do you let them go and hope that have read up on the care?

How hard is this: Jungle corn!?! what is that? Then the breeder would have to say that it is a hybrid of corn and emoryi.


I have already said that I agree with Kjun on this "being a hybridizer comes with the responsibility to represent them honestly and to do everything in their power to make sure their customers do so, too. "

Originally Posted by reptile_jones

That is why they should do their "home work"
I agree, but in reality most newbies don't, like it or not that's just the way it is

Why is this that breeder at fault. When you sell your babies do you explain the hole "how to take care of their new corn" with the new buyer or do you let them go and hope that have read up on the care?
I think they both share the blame, but the only way I can see the seller being less responsible is if the buyer comes up and says "Gimme that snake right there, I don't care what it is or what it eats, I'm taking it home now Gosh darnit!"
"Yes Sir it's yours, please just don't bite me"

How hard is this: Jungle corn!?! what is that? Then the breeder would have to say that it is a hybrid of corn and emoryi.

See right there! It looks like you didn't do your homework...ps) jungle= corn x king


I have already said that I agree with Kjun on this "being a hybridizer comes with the responsibility to represent them honestly and to do everything in their power to make sure their customers do so, too. "

YEP! I agree as well

Yes jungle is corn X King, I just miss type it. I'm only willing to work with emoryi x corns. Not a fan of jungles or any other of the hybrid's

Here is a new one that I found a few months back on RG.com and this guy doesn't call them a hybrid Sun Burst corn??????

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=65&de=644926

After an email it was discovered to be a corn X sinaloan

Originally Posted by reptile_jones

Yes jungle is corn X King, I just miss type it. I'm only willing to work with emoryi x corns. Not a fan of jungles or any other of the hybrid's

Here is a new one that I found a few months back on RG.com and this guy doesn't call them a hybrid Sun Burst corn??????

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=65&de=644926

After an email it was discovered to be a corn X sinaloan

That's a pretty striking Sun Burst hybrid.
Now that you're in contact maybe you could link him to this thread?

I still don't see how the responsibility falls onto the breeder to inform everyone that peruses their table that a Jungle Corn is a hybrid...

It seems to me that if I have a table full of snakes, anda thousand people coming by to look at them and ask questions...how can I, as a breeder, be expected to know what everyone is thinking? How can I, as a breeder, be held responsible because someone bought a snake without asking me what it was?

The ONLY way I see the seller as responsible is if the purchaser asks, and the breeder lies. That's it. If the buyer says, "Jungle Corn? Never heard of it. What is it?" and the breeder says, "Oh, it's the newest recessive discovered there's only a few available. These things will be making all the newest morphs in the next 5 years." THAN I see the breeder as responsible.

But if a customer doesn't ask, I certainly can't tell them. I'm sorry, but the term "Jungle Corn" has been being used for long enough, and looks so completely different from any natural, non-hybrid, that it *should* be a no-brainer for a potential customer that is uninformed to simply say, "What is that?"

Really? Some of you think that a breeder is obligated to stand there with a bell and a diagram to explain to every person walking by what a Jungle Corn is? I think that's just ridiculous.

Bottom line, in my opinion...it is ALWAYS the reposnibility of the buyer to KNOW what they are buying before laying money on the table. Don't assume. Don't guess. Ask and KNOW what you are buying. If you don't...that is entirely and completely your fault. Period.

Just my $.02...

To avoid any misgivings, putting a small note that says "Hybrid" or "CornXCali king" shouldn't be too much trouble.
You don't -have- to do it, but it sure will spare future missunderstandings... or minimize them at least

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

To avoid any misgivings, putting a small note that says "Hybrid" or "CornXCali king" shouldn't be too much trouble.
You don't -have- to do it, but it sure will spare future missunderstandings... or minimize them at least

No matter what I, as a breeder, do to get the point across...people still don't care what they are buying. Anyone who doesn't care enough to ask about a snake before buying it...probably doesn't care if it's a hybrid. And if they DO care about it being a hybrid...they should have probably asked before they bought it...

Again I am not saying that you're wrong. But there are certain ethics that should be followed and I do think that a breeder should always aspire to minimize misunderstandings and do his best to make sure that every buyer gets what he wants.
And worse case scenario- they still end up complaining? You can invite them to check the label on the box itself which specified without a doubt that it is a hybrid. Heck, it's a great way to "cover" yourself.
Naturally, the more snakes you sell, the more misunderstandings and complaints you shall receive. However the fact that these are bound to occur doesn't mean you shouldn't even -try- to minimize them with a set of simple and not too time consuming steps.

I am not saying you -have- to do this. No one has to do it. I am talking about what is right, as I see it.
And from what I see most companies act in the same way.

In the long run, the damage that can be caused by a large consensus of complaints against a breeder can easily exceed the time he would have had to invest in order to prevent them in the first place.

That's just my opinion though.

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

Again I am not saying that you're wrong. But there are certain ethics that should be followed and I do think that a breeder should always aspire to minimize misunderstandings and do his best to make sure that every buyer gets what he wants.
And worse case scenario- they still end up complaining? You can invite them to check the label on the box itself which specified without a doubt that it is a hybrid. Heck, it's a great way to "cover" yourself.
Naturally, the more snakes you sell, the more misunderstandings and complaints you shall receive. However the fact that these are bound to occur doesn't mean you shouldn't even -try- to minimize them with a set of simple and not too time consuming steps.

I am not saying you -have- to do this. No one has to do it. I am talking about what is right, as I see it.
And from what I see most companies act in the same way.

In the long run, the damage that can be caused by a large consensus of complaints against a breeder can easily exceed the time he would have had to invest in order to prevent them in the first place.

That's just my opinion though.

Most companies have to put the simple, no-brainer, common sense info on labels because some idiot didn't use their brain and used the product in a way that it was not intended for. A perfect example...a snow blower with a caution label stating it should not be used on the roof of your house. This is a real label because some moron did haul his snow blower onto his roof, he and it fell through the roof and promptly sued the manufacturer.

The snake in question was labeled properly. I've been to enough expos and have seen plenty of labeled reptiles. And I don't think there are very many of them offered for sale that have every little piece of information about them placed on the label. In fact, you don't see every piece of information because where do you draw the line as to what should be on the label and what is not necessary? What about hatch date, what is it eating and how often, shed schedule, weight... all important information, but is a seller obligated to supply all of it on the label because a buyer doesn't know enough to ask how old the snake is, is it eating and what it's eating, etc?

Originally Posted by Susan

Most companies have to put the simple, no-brainer, common sense info on labels because some idiot didn't use their brain and used the product in a way that it was not intended for. A perfect example...a snow blower with a caution label stating it should not be used on the roof of your house. This is a real label because some moron did haul his snow blower onto his roof, he and it fell through the roof and promptly sued the manufacturer.

The snake in question was labeled properly. I've been to enough expos and have seen plenty of labeled reptiles. And I don't think there are very many of them offered for sale that have every little piece of information about them placed on the label. In fact, you don't see every piece of information because where do you draw the line as to what should be on the label and what is not necessary? What about hatch date, what is it eating and how often, shed schedule, weight... all important information, but is a seller obligated to supply all of it on the label because a buyer doesn't know enough to ask how old the snake is, is it eating and what it's eating, etc?

NOPE! Just the main ingredients. ( don't even need the fat/het content)

Again, honestly! how terribly hard is saying or even labeling this?

"Jungle Corn, cornsnake x kingsnake hybrid"