Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

Originally Posted by wade

Great post Fred, excellent points.

I agree 100%. Good post Fred. How far will we go to uphold and protect our nation and what we used to stand for. If you are legal, you are in the system, papers or no papers. I would take absolutely no offense if I moved to another country and they would perform random ID checks on me (assuming an honest enforcement), as I would see it- if I were a legal citizen it would actually give me a sense of security & comfort to know that that country would be upholding the laws, that I would not be providing for illegals and that they were ensuring that the necessary laws and regulations have been followed by everyone to get the sought after legal status.
I would NEVER go into another country and demand rights for free, all the while waving my native flag (which I see plenty of illegals doing). It literally makes me sick to my stomach.

Originally Posted by Nanci

Why is that a bad thing?

It just scares me, as I said earlier just sounds a like the beginning of Nazi, Germany. Maybe because I don't want to do the work many immigrants do, I don't think a lot of us would. Maybe because when I was a kid blacks were profiled and I hated it. I don't know Nanci.

I do have a question I read requirements for Arizona DL or ID, is that going to be enough? Maybe I don't get it.

But Arizona isn't saying they don't want any Mexicans in the state. They are saying they don't want _any_ person there illegally, in the state. The US citizens of Mexican heritage are part of the 70% of Arizona's citizenship who approve of the law.

I'm Hispanic but I probably wouldn't get "profiled" since I do look white enough to pass for a gringa. But I have to agree with Shiari here cops aren't all angels. They have that badge and that does go to some people's heads. I have gotten a couple tickets in my life and some officers are more condescending and treat you in a less respectful way than others. They are just people, not perfect and no I don't like the idea of them having more power. I grew up in one of those countries and if you did you instinctively wouldn't trust police to always do the right thing either, because while things are going well here it's all innocent enough that we all have to carry ID at all time but where does that lead, susang said it well in her post a bit like the beginnings of Nazi Germany.
Oh well, wasn't planning to go to AZ anyway

Originally Posted by Tara80

I would take absolutely no offense if I moved to another country and they would perform random ID checks on me (assuming an honest enforcement), as I would see it

I added an emphasis to the quotation. That's the issue those who object to this law are worried about. Honest enforcement. I am not assuming there will be DIShonest enforcement, BTW. I am voicing what I think the concern among the "anti" people is.

Originally Posted by Shiari

The over-reacting statements made me instantly think of the health care thread... and LOL. My how the tables turn so quickly.

Different thing entirely. The government has a long history of overspending and inefficiency. The police have a history of doing the very best they can to be fair and evenhanded.

That said, I think my mom has my birth certificate, and I still need to get a replacement SS card from when my wallet was stolen several years ago.

I have no proof, aside from a driver's license, that I am an american citizen. I also don't always carry my license with me unless I'm driving. And yet, white, blonde, green-eyed me, would not be targeted by a cop under this law and you know it. My hispanic best friend? Maybe. My philipino-but-looks-mexican friend? Very likely.

Actually it is as always has been the law that you should be able to identify yourself if asked to by a police officer. That is not new. Otherwise you are considered a vagrant.

And for "Racial profiling doesn't happen often", my office manager could tell you quite differently. At 14 years old a bunch of cops pretty much pounced on him because a tall, thin, hispanic guy robbed a store a few blocks away. Please note that my manager is not very tall, was very overweight at that point, and *black*. Cops didn't care. ....

I shortened your statement a little. We can all come up with stories about when the police made a mistake or did something wrong. That is not the rule it is the exception.

I can also tell when cops are in the last few days of their monthly quota. We counted 8 people pulled over in front of my hospital in the span of 6 hours for traffic tickets by the same cop. Sounds like an ambush to me. I've also seen cop cars hiding down alleys or behind bushes, waiting for people to go past them. Yes, cops ambush people.

You bet the police hide and try to catch you breaking the law. That is their job. There is nothing wrong with that. If the pulled over 8 people in front of your hospital, I would be willing to bet all 8 of them had broken the law. So whats your point?

Originally Posted by Shiari

THIS is a good point. But the law is still worded poorly. Reasonable suspicion is far too broad. Dangerously broad as it gives cops, who in my experience tend to be people who often feel stressed and overwhelmed by all the crud they have to deal with each day, a reason to act upon subconscious prejudices.

This is what the law has always said. This is not new. A police man can not stop you on the street without cause. There has to be a reasonable suspicion before he can stop you.

As a teenager I encountered a cop who apparently strongly disliked women. He was rude and condescending ....I am editing again....knife, basically cowering in terror. But no, a 17 year old wouldn't be terrified of a guy banging on the windows and pulling on the doors, right?

Once again, we can all come up with stories where we feel the police made a mistake. It may be that the policeman knew how to do his job better that you did. Either way it doesn't matter. The police stop tens of thousands of people everyday without complaint. You have come up with two second hand stories. This is not the norm. You can't judge police in general based on a couple of stories.

There is nothing the news likes better than a bad cop. If police were running rampant in the street abusing their power left and right don't you think it would be Headline news? Every bad cop that ever walked the street has been in the paper. It is rare, it ends up in court and on the front page, and it is the exception to the rule.

Originally Posted by wade

There is nothing the news likes better than a bad cop. If police were running rampant in the street abusing their power left and right don't you think it would be Headline news? Every bad cop that ever walked the street has been in the paper. It is rare, it ends up in court and on the front page, and it is the exception to the rule.

Exactly Wade.

SOMEONE has to protect us. SOMEONE has to enforce the laws. WHERE do you draw the line in the sand. I am sure none of you guys want to go out and do their job? Where would we be without our military and our law enforcement. They put their life on the line DAILY so that you and I can sit here and and bicker about their 'honesty' on these forums. Of course no one is perfect, but what would we have without laws? Chaos, a 3rd world country and a lack of structure of any sort (medical, education, etc). It all goes hand in hand. I know plenty of cops (my dad being one of them) and for the most part they are hard working good individuals.. and as Wade stated, they wouldn't get very far if they did take advantage of someone.

Here is my take on that law. I know my opinion may not be popular with some. So be it.

My husband is an immigrant from Scotland. Yes, he has his legal permanent resident visa. My children are half hispanic, as their father is full-blooded Hispanic. My kiddos were born here in OR. Their father was born and raised in CA, as were his parents, and their parents before them.

I am concerned by this law. At least one of my children looks "brown". Sooooo... now what? If he visits AZ, does that mean he needs to carry his birth certificate or U.S. Passport with him at all times? I'm pretty sure a simple driver's license or state ID isn't going to cut it. Sheesh.

I see it being a huge problem just for my family. All of us are legal, but some of my children take after their hispanic father looks-wise. They would undoubtedly be harassed, and would have no option but to carry bulky paperwork with them to visit AZ. My husband, with his Scottish accent, would undoubtedly be asked for his "papers". While not a problem to SHOW them, there is a perception by all of us here that we would be subject to hostility and harassment by law enforcement in AZ should we visit that state. It is an insult in our minds, and we will not visit AZ for as long as this law is on the books, which is too bad, because that was on our list of places to visit in May while we're on vacation. It's just not worth the hassle, imho.

We may be only 5 people, but if a lot of 5 person families, and larger companies boycott the tourism industry in AZ, we will make a statement. Whether it effects a change or repeal of the new law remains to be seen.

Legally I have to carry my green card, I am not a citizen, I am a resident alien.. This is the document that must be produced upon request.. I just wish I never spent the time and money doing things legally, I bet I would have saved a grip of cash... If things were done through the proper channels there is no problem.. I don't see what the issue is..

Didn't the 9/11 terrorists come through Canada. This would set better if Montana, Washington, Idaho, North Dakota... adopted the same laws.
People get killed in their homes everday and it's not all by illegal immigrants.

Negative, this has been proven an urban legend.. I wonder where I can find this posted online.. The guy that wanted to pop a hole through LAX crossed from Canada, none of the hijackers every did from my understanding..

But Arizona isn't saying they don't want any Mexicans in the state. They are saying they don't want _any_ person there illegally, in the state. The US citizens of Mexican heritage are part of the 70% of Arizona's citizenship who approve of the law.

They don't care if there is a population of Hispanic folk, they are concered with the illegally migrated folk, whether they are from Mexico or any other country.. Think thats a line of crap, you obviously never got pulled and searched through an immigration line prior to 9/11, I have... People forget the part that includes folk of hispanic descent voting on that law as well..

For the record, I have no problem with people immigrating legally to any country, I do have issues that are related to people immigrating illegally, thus it reflects poorly on any person who has immigrated to a new country.. As an immigrant, I do and have dealt with the immigrant issues, and if any one knows me or has met me personally, they know there is no mistaking me from coming over the southern border.. ...

Mrs. Z, I understand your concern but now there are MANY more ways to tell if someone is legal or not. Valid drivers license, proof of insurance (which are two items that are required to be on you anyway) and the registration systems. As far as I know, most police cars have a computer system and ways to look up anyone who is legal.