Cohabbing Misfortunes.

it should be fine for a year or so, i will make them something bigger when they grow, if i separate them, one will stay in that vivarium and for another i will make similar to this one, i do not have space for two much larger vivariums

Babies do seem to be much worse for cannibalism, just sayin' when I was just starting out and didn't know about using tubs I cohabbed hatchlings and several times I had to separate one from another's mouth, luckily none were hurt. That was only with one clutch. One single clutch and several instances of attempted cannibalism.

Originally Posted by starsevol

Well well well since this thread started nearly a year ago, SnakeAround can no longer say that nothing has happened, as she had a death that a few of us feel was a direct result of co habbing. Then she showed some pics of her set up, and the vivs shown were large enough to house ONE animal comfortably.

I just wanted to describe the situation so people can form their opinion themself. I put a corn accidentally in a kingsnake vivs and the corn was eaten by the king. It could happen because I usually close the glass sliding doors of a viv because there is another snake in it and/or I want to keep in the warmth. Now I remove the keys from the locks of my kings as a 'wake up' should I want to open it accidentally when they are in it and feed them last so it can not happen again. Starsevol sees this as a direct result of co-habbing since if there would have been one snake in a cage, I could have left any viv open when a snake is taken out and could not have made the mistake. I do understand her reasoning, but to me that is indirect and not direct, further I have introduced a new habit to prevent it.

Still, over here my vivs are considered big enough for co-habbing, as is my viw with my two boa constrictors (of which I decided to sell one because she is harassed by her cage mate now and than). Those are just different opinions/habits over here. If it would be so bad for our snakes, resulting in illnesses or deaths, I'm pretty sure the habits would have changed by now.

Originally Posted by kells

i think that vivarium is a better option for snake than small racks, it is interesting how in my country people judge keeping snakes in the racks, and on the other hand, keeping them in that way is aceptable in your country, i can ashure you that nobody in our forums and among snake keepers that i know, didnt have any problem with co-habitated corns. Is it because they kept in big vivariums with lots of hiding and klimbing spots, or just pure luck, i really dont know. I have female ball python , 3 years old, she was my first snake, i didnt have corns until few weeks , but all breeders here co-habits corns, not all of them. Nobody have problems with snakes, only mature males were kept solitary. Im not trying to make this sound ok or right thing to do, i just talk about experience that our breeders and keepers have here.

I have told about this so many times, it will allways be a topic we won't agree about, though some USA people do see the difference between monitored co-habbing in large vivs versus squishing a handfull of snakes in a viv that is way too small without quarantine or any idea what a stressed snake would look like.

Originally Posted by SnakeAround

I have told about this so many times, it will allways be a topic we won't agree about, though some USA people do see the difference between monitored co-habbing in large vivs versus squishing a handfull of snakes in a viv that is way too small without quarantine or any idea what a stressed snake would look like.

i didnt have to quarantine my snakes because they both came from same source, so their vivarium is their quarantine cage. I think that my girls have more space in their viv than lots adult snakes in smal racks

Originally Posted by SnakeAround

I have told about this so many times, it will allways be a topic we won't agree about, though some USA people do see the difference between monitored co-habbing in large vivs versus squishing a handfull of snakes in a viv that is way too small without quarantine or any idea what a stressed snake would look like.

If you actually HAD a large viv that might be another story.....the vivs you posted are large enough for ONE snake to be comfortable.
Knock racks all you want but over here our snakes have lots of space to stretch out and no stress from cagemates they wouldn't go near if they were given a choice......

My snakes can stretch and have some stuff to climb on too. Further they do have a choice to avoid a cage mate, each viv has multiple warm spots and hides. Yet, they are in the same hides and spots a lot. If they would really hate to come in contact with cage mates, they would choose different spots much more of the time I think. But this discussion won't eve stop and I am pretty sure hardly anything will change in the general consensus both in the USA and in Europe. I have been in the hobby since 2005 and so far co-habbing is still not frowned upon in Europe, whilst many are against using tubs in general.

Originally Posted by SnakeAround

My snakes can stretch and have some stuff to climb on too. Further they do have a choice to avoid a cage mate, each viv has multiple warm spots and hides. Yet, they are in the same hides and spots a lot. If they would really hate to come in contact with cage mates, they would choose different spots much more of the time I think. But this discussion won't eve stop and I am pretty sure hardly anything will change in the general consensus both in the USA and in Europe. I have been in the hobby since 2005 and so far co-habbing is still not frowned upon in Europe, whilst many are against using tubs in general.

And I have been in the hobby since 1995 (with rosy boas) and 1996 (with corn snakes) and I have seen pics you posted of your vivs!! Just big enough for a snake to avoid it's own poop, but definately not big enough for 2!!! Tubs are spacious, lightweight and easy to clean. I don't know about *all* european snake keepers, but I do know that you're doing it wrong!!

I am just tired of us getting accused look down upon for racks when our housing is actually larger. My cohab tank is 110 gals!! Not 20 or 30. My rake system has clear tubs that have multiple hides and things to climb on and they are individually house in a size that you cohab. Don't give me the crap saying your snakes have more room and more enriched environments. All of my snakes are housed in 20 to 55 gal size houses except babies who have 10 gal and you know what? When I run out of room I don't get more snakes. I don't cohab for my benefit.

Originally Posted by Christen

I am just tired of us getting accused look down upon for racks when our housing is actually larger. My cohab tank is 110 gals!! Not 20 or 30. My rack system has clear tubs that have multiple hides and things to climb on and they are individually house in a size that you cohab. Don't give me the crap saying your snakes have more room and more enriched environments. All of my snakes are housed in 20 to 55 gal size houses except babies who have 10 gal and you know what? When I run out of room I don't get more snakes. I don't cohab for my benefit.

Those are the two biggest points!

The space my adults have in a rack system is larger than to cohab vivs I've seen. Plus, if I don't have space to house them properly, I don't get another animal. Period.

I NOT will jam animals into far to small cages with other animals just so I can own more.

Don't even get me started on keeping two different species together. That is pinnacle of ridiculous. No one with a bit of sense would keep reptiles from two totally different habitats together. You are not giving either species what it needs. Sure they can live like that for a while, but will start to see a decline in long term health and life span. I have zero respect for anyone who does that.