CornSnakes.com Forums  
  Tired of those Google and InfoLinks ads? Register and log in!

Go Back   CornSnakes.com Forums > The CornSnake Forums > Health Issues/Feeding Problems
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Health Issues/Feeding Problems Anything related to general or specific health problems. Issues having to do with feeding problems or tips.

Reptile euthanasia discussion
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-23-2014, 11:43 AM   #1
Chip
Reptile euthanasia discussion

Nanci's forum has some great links on reptile euthanasia, but it is closed for discussion -and for good reason. It is a controversial topic and people get as heated talking about this as hybrids and venomoids. But it is something that comes up when you keep animals. With old corn snakes, they seem to lose muscle mass and have a hard time digesting. With lots of small meals, you can nurse them along for a while, but then they get to the point that they regurge almost anything eaten.

I have euthanized many reptiles by either feeding them to another reptile (for babies) or fridge to freezer, but veterinary papers suggest that the formation of ice crystals in the tissue may be painful. Here are some links Nanci provided:

large document

Short article with citations (though it is from Melissa Kaplan, who is an animal's rights anti-reptile keeping nut)

A very specific document

What disturbed me most was from the Warrick paper:
Quote:
rapid destruction of the brain does extinguish responses usually thought to indicate consciousness. There is,however, a remarkably intact set of somatic responses to stimuli long continued body movements, foot withdrawals in response to toe pinching, etc., as well as continued heartbeat in many cases for hours following brain destruction.
So smash their heads, but their (even headless) body can still feel everything for hours? I'm starting to wonder if there even is a good method.

I bring this up now because one of my favorite old hognose girls is dying. Vet check showed no parasites or pathogens, and the my vet herself said in her opinion, the injection they would give in the stomach wall was painful. She has to be put down soon or she will simply waste away, which can only be less humane than anything relatively quick.

I once heard Penn Jillette say that he didn't care how he died. In fact, he joked that he would just as soon die in a fire as in his sleep -it's just a few minutes of panic and pain, your lifetime is probably going to be 40 million minutes, so make the most of some of those. Neat concept, but I simply can't subscribe to that at all.

Our reptiles are going to get old and die. Most of them will decline in health and either need to be euthanized or allowed to waste away. I can only think that even a short painful death would be preferable to that, and many of us will need to end the lives of our pets. So, if we can have a level headed discussion, I would like to.
 
Old 07-23-2014, 11:57 PM   #2
carriecat2
Chip, sorry about your hognose. As pet owners, end of life care is a necessary topic for consideration. I didn't realize there's no good euthanasia method for snakes ...

As I just got our first snake less than two weeks ago, I don't know anything about snake's biology. Would lower the temperature to hibernation and then CO2 be more humane? I don't know if CO2 is a more comfortable way to go, or a snake nearing it's end would hibernate, and whether you can actually transport the said snake to the doctor without waking it ... With cats, they first give an injection to relax everything, at that point the cat is not feeling much, would some sort of sleeping gas in a sealed box do the same to snake? And then follow it with the injection to stomach, as long as the snake doesn't really feel it by then ...
 
Old 07-24-2014, 10:14 AM   #3
daddio207
Chip, I read that article awhile ago and it also left me wondering if there is a humane way to euthanize a reptile..............


"So smash their heads, but their (even headless) body can still feel everything for hours? I'm starting to wonder if there even is a good method."
I could NOT do it but for sake of discussion, smashing their head/brains then immediate decapitation would stop signals to the brain so the body's nerves might still be active but there would be no pain since it is processed in the brain.

Personally and recommended by a veterinarian, I would euthanize with dry ice/CO2 (controlled atmosphere killing) and let my ignorance of the reptiles nervous system comfort me in thinking that the reptile went peacefully. It's been decades since using this method though.

Hope you find peace in letting her go.....
 
Old 07-25-2014, 12:26 PM   #4
Chip
Well, she died last night or this morning. I didn't have to do anything about it, but in retrospect wish I would have. She was skin and bones, and had a row of undeveloped eggs, even though she hadn't bred in years. I can only think that sooner would have been more humane.

As for CO2, it simply doesn't seem to work on snakes. I tried years ago on a rescue ball that had been chewed by its food, and an hour later it was still living. A mouse would would last about a minute in the chamber. Intuitively, fridge to freezer "seems" most humane, but there are many against that method. I am not bashing my snake's head with a hammer, though.
 
Old 07-25-2014, 02:33 PM   #5
carriecat2
Sorry about your hognose, at least it wasn't too drawn out.

How much does a snake feel when its body temperature is lowered to fridge temperature? I understand ice crystal forming would be painful, however, if the snake is in "deep sleep", maybe it won't feel the pain ...
 
Old 07-25-2014, 05:12 PM   #6
Chip
That's been my thinking.
 
Old 07-25-2014, 07:49 PM   #7
Nanci
Snakes are ectotherms. They are heated from outside. They are designed to be able to operate in low temperatures. When the temperature gets too low, they can no longer move, but they are still conscious. Have you ever had a body part get cold, too cold, start to freeze, get frost bite? It hurts like H. Cooling/freezing snakes to kill them, although convenient, is inhumane.

Freezing is only a humane option if the snake has been anesthetized first.

Why, just because it is a reptile, would you think it's okay to kill a conscious animal, slowly? You sure wouldn't think it was okay if it was a bear, or any other mammal that hibernates...And cold snakes aren't even that deeply asleep!
 
Old 07-25-2014, 08:30 PM   #8
carriecat2
Thanks Nanci for the information, I didn't realize that. I thought when the temperature is really low, snake's body actually really shutdown, and they don't feel much at all.

After reading the article you provided, it seems injection at the vet is suppose to be least painful. I think that's the way I will go when the time comes (hopefully many many years from now) ...
 
Old 07-25-2014, 08:51 PM   #9
TyeW
I have spoken with biologists that recommended décapitation and cranial dislocation, as well as freezing.
 
Old 07-25-2014, 08:55 PM   #10
ghosthousecorns
The circle of life method (feeding to another snake) - for me at least this way the snakes' death is serving a purpose, I was just thinking about a recent post here on cs where a member asked for nonfeeders/problem eaters and another member donated a clutch of het stargazers, that went to feeding cobras I think?

 

Join now to reply to this thread or open new ones for your questions & comments! Cornsnakes.com is the largest online community dedicated to cornsnakes . Registration is open to everyone and FREE. Click Here to Register!

Google
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:27 PM.





Fauna Top Sites
 

Powered by vBulletin® Version
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.03581309 seconds with 9 queries
Copyright Rich Zuchowski/SerpenCo