New to snakes... possible future owner?

Hey everyone. I'm obviously new here!

I live in Central PA with my husband, dog, cats, rats, and various fish. My pet family grows steadily, though I have general plans as to when my life will accommodate them. For instance, my sun conure will not be a part of our family for 5-10 more years.

Snakes were never a plan in my future until a few years ago when I suddenly became fascinated. I'm not even sure how it happened! The species that was so striking for me at first was an egg eating snake. I love their size, their cute little faces, and their amazing diet. I understand that this is not a beginner snake and that I need to start with something more simple.

Now, here's where it got tricky for me. I am very scared of snake fangs. (It's part of the reason why the egg eating snakes appealed to me.) I am just terrified of being bitten. I had completely written off snakes as a possibility for me until someone on another forum had a poll about rat bites. I've never been bitten by a rat and never plan to as I choose my rats carefully for their temperament and I am always careful about how I approach rats with special needs, such as blindness or other illness. Paying attention to body language and keeping your wits about you keeps you from being bitten. Then, it hit me. Maybe that is no different with snakes. Perhaps I could choose a snake carefully so that it had a temperament that matched what I needed and I could learn how to avoid the terrifying fangs.

All of that said, I am still left wondering if a pet snake is right for me. Google led me here and claimed corn snakes as an excellent beginner snake. I am tending to agree the more I read.

I think I have most of everything I need if I plan on getting a snake this year. (It would be a few months as this spring is hectic for me.) I have a UTH, thermometer and humidity gauge, bedding, hides, branches and artificial plants, and a tank.

My tank is a 20H because it fits the furniture where I have it placed rather perfectly and it was going to be a home for a new fish. I would like for this tank to be sufficient for at least a few years. I am not interested in large snakes needing large enclosures. Is it enough? How fast do they grow? If I needed to upgrade, when would I need to do this and how much larger would I need? If the tank would be sufficient for a long enough period, I believe the last piece of equipment I'll need is a good locking lid.

Moving on, feeding will not be an issue for me as long as the snake will do well on F/T. For many reasons, live feeding is just not an option for me. However, I have even more questions about F/T. I do not like supporting pet stores, especially chains. How would I go about finding a different source of frozen food? Is this something that other snake owners do? How would I be able to know if the food was raised and put down humanely?

Of course there's the question of obtaining the snake. There are several reasons why I'm not keen on purchasing online. I would rather have the shipping fee go towards more goodies for the snake. Also, temperament is of utmost importance to me. I would be so much more comfortable with a purchase if I could handle the specific snake and speak with its breeder. Is an expo the way to go about this? Are their local-ish breeders that conduct business this way?

I haven't had my coffee yet, so I'm sure I am missing questions here, but I think that's all for now. I hope to hear from you all soon!

Regarding 'fangs': Corn snakes don't have fangs. They have teeth. Many many super tiny teeth. While getting bit by an adult will cause you to bleed, it's like getting a paper cut.

As an example, here are the teeth from my yellow rat snake (6 1/2 feet long, ~3 lbs so significantly larger than a corn snake) from when he chomped me and I jerked my hand away... which is what you are NOT supposed to do.



As you can see, those teeth are TINY.

Re: Tank size- A 20H will probably last you a year, maybe two, but corns need more ground than height. You'll need a minimum of a 20L for an adult corn, but a 40 breeder is much more ideal. You can also buy 'display cages' at most reptile expos that are beautiful to look at and provide plenty of space. You can also try making one.

Re: F/T- You can also buy frozen mice at the reptile expos. I buy mine online from places like Rodent Pro or Llayne's Lab because I have around 20 snakes right now. Another option is breeding your own mice, humanely euthanising them with CO2, and freezing them.

Re: Temperament- Many baby corns are flighty. Lots of things eat them and so they are the most likely to display defensive behaviours like tail rattling and striking. Being bit by a baby corn snake is like getting attacked by angry velcro. It's hilarious. Reptile expos, while a great way to get babies, may not give you an accurate representation of the personality. The snakes might be a little cooler than normal, and so less active, and they might also be stressed out.

If you go online to some of the smaller breeders, they might be able to tell you the personality of their hatchlings and find one that is right for you. I myself am working on a line that is being bred solely for temperament, but I probably won't have really consistent results for a decade or so. But I've got wonderful adults that have always thrown excellent babies and so they are the start of my line.

I feel so silly regarding the fangs. So, what you are saying is that they don't have those four huge fangs at each corner of their mouths, but rather a lining of small needles? I know this must sound ridiculous.

I'm glad to hear that my current tank may work for a year or so. I am not opposed to the idea of a 20L or perhaps even slightly larger. My father and grandfather like to work with wood and had a grand time building a custom tank stand for my fish, so some sort of furniture to hold a bit longer tank and make it look nice is a likely possibility.

Do expos generally only have babies? I have to admit that the idea of having a snake from a hatchling appeals to me, but making sure that I have the right temperament is more important than having a cute little hatchling. It sounds like I am maybe looking for an adolescent?

Am I asking the right questions? Could a corn snake be the right pet for me?

Even the snakes that have fangs don't have 4 of them. Corn snakes have 2 rows of teeth on the top jaw, and one row on the bottom. A "lining of small needles" is a very accurate way to describe it.

You will mostly find babies at expos, but there are often a fair few adults as well. A juvenile would probably be a good bet for you as they're a bit more confident and you can have a better idea of their personality while still getting to watch them grow up.

You are asking wonderful questions and I think corn snakes are an awesome pet. Keep researching!

Shows how irrational my fear must be with how much I know about the teeth!

An expo might be fun to go to if I can find one later this summer, but I suppose I'll have to hunt down someone that can sell me a docile juvenile somehow.

I'm not very focused on colors/morphs. I don't care much for the ones with red eyes, but that's as far as the preference goes.

So, I dropped a little bit of a hint to the husband that a new pet may enter the family this summer. That bare tank has been sitting on the one shelf in our living room for nearly a year now, so I'm certain that he knows SOMETHING will be in it eventually! He only sighed a little bit, so I think we're good!

Anyway... is my ZooMed (I think that is the brand!) UTH acceptable? I very much like the idea that I already have almost everything I need right now, aside from the snake. I'd prefer not to have to buy much else rather than a good top for the tank. Speaking of which, what is the best I can possibly do for that? Escapes are really not something that I am wishing for.

Is there a certain best time to obtain juveniles? Do breeders work with natural breeding cycles or do they create them artificially to suit their own schedules? Is it possible to find one on here that would be willing to work with me to choose one specifically for my needs, rather than buying one from these big online sites and crossing my fingers for a docile specimen?

Consider the area of the UTH versus the area of the tank bottom - it should be about one fourth of the overall area. Zoomed is fine, but since many snake tanks are longs, your UTH may cover too much of the floor to allow for the needed temperature gradient.

I'd go to the first expo you can and look at snakes, handle some, and get to know breeders so that you know you are comfortable and you develop important relationships with people you may buy from and seek advice from.

I think mine may be the perfect size, then, actually... I will need to go downstairs and measure to be sure, but obviously it isn't a time concern.

I am reading that although I have a thermometer, I will need a thermostat? Is this an expensive thing?

I am looking for expos this summer that I can go to. I am a vendor at a small pet expo on the 27th and expecting a niece in early June, so things are very busy right now! I'm hoping that a summer expo will work out and hopefully a purchase this summer.

Good point about relationships! I'd love to meet local folks and I would love to have a relationship with a breeder like I do with my rats.

The thermostat regulates the UTH - it has a temp probe that monitors the glass in the tank directly above the UTH and turns the pad off and on to regulate the temp. You can control the UTH with a rheostat type control, but it is not nearly as precise or safe.

Thermostats aren't terribly expensive...we have Hydrofarms we picked up on Amazon for under $30.

Thanks, guys! Found one on Amazon and bookmarked it for later. (Sidenote: toxiclight, are you in Central PA by chance?)

Guruofchem said:

You can control the UTH with a rheostat type control, but it is not nearly as precise or safe.

Click to expand...

In a climate controlled environment, a rheostat can be just as precise (if not more) and just as safe. I've been using my DIY rheo/dimmer for about a month now, and after the first couple days for temps to even out, I haven't had to adjust the dimmer once. I check glass and ground level temps multiple times a day, with little to no fluctuation. And if there is a fluctuation, it's a couple degrees down at night when the lights are out, the computers are off, and the humans are in bed. Hell, in thermostat land, they call that a "night drop" feature and charge more for it!

Sorry, just really had to point that out. I was on the fence between the rheo or 3x as much for a t-stat, and haven't regretted my choice yet.

As for expos, if there's one in your area then you can probably count on it occuring early spring, summer, and fall. I missed the KC Reptile Show, so I went looking for future dates and found out it (along with many other areas) is held about every 2 months or so.
Did a little googling, not sure where it is in relation to you, but Cheswick seems to the the happenin spot in PA...

May 4
Horsham, PA
Hatboro Rotary Show & Sale, Keith Valley Middle School, 227 Meetinghouse Rd; Info: 215 646 4950; www.hatbororotary.org

May 19
Cheswick PA
Pittsburgh Reptile Show & Sale, Harmar House -1321 Freeport Rd.; Info: Amanda Hess, (724) 516-0441;www.pghreptileshow.com.

June 22
Oaks, PA
East Coast Reptiles Super Expo, Greater Philadelphia Expo Center, 1601 Egypt Rd Greater Reading Expo Center, 2525 N 12th St. Info: Marty Peidl, (610) 529–3614 [email protected]

June 23
Cheswick PA
Pittsburgh Reptile Show & Sale, Harmar House -1321 Freeport Rd.; Info: Amanda Hess, (724) 516-0441;www.pghreptileshow.com.

July 14
Cheswick PA
Pittsburgh Reptile Show & Sale, Harmar House -1321 Freeport Rd.; Info: Amanda Hess, (724) 516-0441;www.pghreptileshow.com.

July 27
Reading, PA
East Coast Reptile Super Expo, Greater Reading Expo Center, 2525 N 12th St. Info: Marty Peidl, (610) 529–3614 [email protected]

Aug. 11
Cheswick PA
Pittsburgh Reptile Show & Sale, Harmar House -1321 Freeport Rd.; Info: Amanda Hess, (724) 516-0441;www.pghreptileshow.com

Aug. 24
Reading, PA
East Coast Reptile Super Expo, Greater Reading Expo Center, 2525 N 12th St. Info: Marty Peidl, (610) 529–3614 [email protected]

Completely unrelated, but grrrrrrr no [ Code ] tag here

Super helpful, Nythain! Thank you!

I'll definitely be able to make at least one of those Reading ones and I'm sure I'll have everything set up by then in case I fall in love with an available baby. It will be nice to just chat with breeders and handle some snakes, though. I have never handled a snake before and will need practice to become confident.

There is a small shop with snakes somewhat nearby. I am considering visiting just to handle some of the specimens.

Hello and welcome to the site, you can learn a lot here. If you decide to get your first snake a lot of folks here can help you.

Only thing with dimmers is they can and will short out often. Dimmers work for temp. situations. A rheo would be better than a dimmer switch but the best is a thermostat that actually controls the temp the UTH puts out.

I have used all three.

You can find a lot of snakes from excellent breeders on this site and others. I would recommend always doing a check on Fauna Classifieds BOI. There you can find out the good, the bad and the ugly about people.

Corn snakes and all snakes are very addicting.

Welcome! Tom might have some juvies available...
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/member.php?u=4683

It looks like he is a bit far, but it might be worth the drive if I were to find someone willing to work with me to hand pick their most docile young snake.

At that gas cost, though, I may be able to find a breeder online that would help me find their sweetest snake?

Sorry, not central Pa...I'm up in the northwestern corner (Erie). If you ever happen to be in the area, you're more than welcome to come and check out the snakes though...we've a couple really calm ones that we use for reptile awareness talks at my daughter's school.

I've never actually been to Erie! Bit of a drive!

In other news, I've decided that I definitely want a charcoal morph! I stared at lots and lots of pictures and this one just really calls out to me. I wonder if this will make it harder to obtain the right snake for me now that I'm only after a charcoal!

I am going to be driving into the city to visit a few pet stores and handle some snakes, since I have never actually handled snakes before and even though I was nothing short of terrified a few weeks ago, I'm now so excited that I'll go crazy if I don't hold a snake soon!

Here's a picture of a charcoal hatchling on Steve Roylance's website. http://gutattus.com/available.htm

I don't know if Steve has any left and I know you might not want a baby and might not be ready yet. But if you decide you might want to go that route, I can personally recommend Steve. I got a baby corn (anery caramel motley) from him last month and she is doing very well. I'm so happy to have her

Casey