This is why I will never own anything bigger than a Morelia

I personally know that I could never properly house or care for a large snake such as retics or burms. The fact is not everyone does there research, not everyone has the ability to take care of these animals either. The problem is some people think they can even when they can't and some people will ensure them it's a walk in the park and anyone can do it when we know that's not true. I view permits for large snakes the same way I view class weapon permits for guns and I am a gun collector and enthusiast. Do I think anyone off the street should be able to walk in and buy a hi cap mag handgun with a suppressor on the end of it with no knowledge of firearms,background check or screen at all....no. And do I think some one with out proper knowledge and ability to take care of a 15ft snake be able to just stroll into a show and be able to pick one up....no. I have found the people on this site have a wealth of knowledge.

I am also personally not a fan of permits myself and I agree with you that punishing the people who do keep responsibly is not the way to do it. As a gun owner I do get it. I never suggested a permit to keep a large boid. However, I did say that it is up to RESPONSIBLE breeders and sellers to make sure people know ALL of the aspects, good and bad of owning a large constrictor that has the potential to kill them if not handled right. You seem to think that there is ABSOLUTELY no danger in keeping a large constrictor (not a super dwarf, not a dwarf but a full sized retic) by the average owner and that's JUST NOT TRUE! There are dangers inherent to keeping these animals. To make it out like these are just the snake for every person who decides they want a snake for the first time is foolish. I adore pitbulls, foster them and love them, but they are NOT for every person. It's the same for large constrictors. There are people who can and should own them and there are people who shouldn't. Unfortunately, the people who shouldn't make huge amounts of trouble for the people should.

CMRetics said:

Oh, and before you act like permits are no big deal if your responsible- there isn't the funding to enforce it, it will be hell to get the 1 person in the US that will be appointed to approve you, because if you think they will waste more time/money on it than that- you're foolish.

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Sorry, hogwash.

As long as a community continues to fight -every- sort of supervision, and just droll on and on about how "this isn't going to work" and "that is not going to work", it will be at risk of being imposed with unreasonable legislation from people who don't know anything- why? because said community is comfortable with not being supervised, and suggests no reasonable alternatives.

In a society- yes, laws and rules are set for the general population, without attempting to see if each of these laws really should apply to every single human being.

Large constrictors are potentially dangerous, the herp community proved that it simply cannot control every keeper out there- nor is it a sensible expectation. People who want money won't stop selling dangerous snakes to people who are willing to pay because they "should".

This clutching at "my freedom" and shoving the head into the sand while ignoring reality will only ensure that at some point, the government will interfere, and due to the constant lack of reasonable cooperation and reasonable alternatives being forwarded by the community, will simply do things as they see fit.

CMRetics said:

Oh, and before you act like permits are no big deal if your responsible- there isn't the funding to enforce it, it will be hell to get the 1 person in the US that will be appointed to approve you, because if you think they will waste more time/money on it than that- you're foolish.

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That's funny, because the conditional species permit system in Florida is working fine and dandy.

A friend was recently approved for his, Fish and Wildlife was a pleasure to deal with a even complimented him on how he keeps his snakes.

If you have your act together there is ZERO reason to fear permits.

Every time we vend in Georgia we have to take an animal inventory manifest list, and let Fish and Wildlife take a look at our animals once everything is set up. The process is super fast and easy if you have your animals listed correctly and things look healthy. The Fish and Wildlife officers and vets are easy to deal with and not out to be hard asses if you have your act together.

However, they do come down like a hammer on people who deserve it. Incorrect listing, and questionable animals are put under scrutiny and that is deservedly so. They do give people a chance to correct things, but if it's still shady then you have to deal with the consequences.

Until something is done about the vendors that continue to sell to keepers with less knowledge than a grapefruit, it's only going to be a matter of time before the right mistake hits the news and the wrong legislation is doled out.

I agree with Meg, there are dangers inherent to keeping these animals, and those risks need to be properly address.

It only takes one idiot to ruin the party for everyone, the media would have a field day.

"It only takes one idiot to ruin the party for everyone, the media would have a field day."

And you can believe when it starts at the top (burms, retics, anaconda's) it just opens the door for a knee jerk, negative public reaction against ALL captive kept herps. With the recent publicity of issues in the 'glades, the door has already been cracked open. Blame hurricanes, irresponsible keepers, whomever you want to, it's irrelevant to the point. Wait til some toddler gets snatched off a bank of a canal by a large invasive snake. Sure, a gator is just as capable, won't make a difference. And if they can grab cats, small dogs, coons possums, other gators et al a toddler is no stretch of the imagination...

To CM I'm all for your right to keep them (would love to see pics of your caging btw). But in light of the negative press that surrounds them, the ONLY bulwark against more draconian laws against them is continued education by those qualified to give it steeped in high doses of continued preaching of "healthy respect" towards them...

I have strong Libertarian views and love guns, and I hate seeing the government involved in our personal business. However, there are a few differences between guns and big snakes. Although both are demonized by the media for a potential power grab by Big Brother, gun ownership is a constitutional right, retic ownership is not. If someone is breaking into your house, or trying to commit a violent crime against you or yours, a gun is a deterent while a big snake is not (unless the criminal is afraid of snakes and knows in advance the animal is there). A person can actually use a gun to defend themselves instead of hiding and waiting for the police to show up! Not so with a snake. So in summary, guns are Constitutionally protected and are used for hunting and protection. Big snakes are not constitutionally protected and are kept by either responsible keepers who love the species, or fools looking to compensate for their....shortcomings.

I kind of think if someone broke in and there you were, with your 15' burm/retic/anaconda around your neck, they would break the land speed record retreating out of your property.

Nanci said:

I kind of think if someone broke in and there you were, with your 15' burm/retic/anaconda around your neck, they would break the land speed record retreating out of your property.

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Or they would just shoot you, or stab you and the snake.
And if they were drunk or high.....who knows?

Plus it takes alot less time to grab your gun then to get your huge snake out of it's secure enclosure if you hear someone breaking a window.

I'm not saying it's a constitutional right, I'm saying it is- in my opinion, my right. It's pretty well known by most people in my area that I have snakes in my place. Besides, as of now my biggest female is in my living room. Although locked and secure she is visible, and that usually scares most people half to death when they enter the room LOL, along with my nile monitor.

You're right though, as soon as I move into the new place and the snakes are all in a separate room, I'll have to pull the 9mm out of hiding and keep it somewhere closer

I have little snakes and they keep away my dreaded family

Haha, mine used to scare my family. I had 5-6ft snakes and those freaked my mom out. She actually made the most progress with the big stuff. She comes out and stands within a few feet of my big stuff when I bring them over to show the neighbors and stuff.

My luck I'd be robbed by a snake lover who not only wanted my TV but would want a tour of the snake room!

Image of a retic bite, along with quotes from the person who posted the pic.

Here's a comparison to yesterday's Venomous Snake Bite for those of you who may under-estimate the big boys. This is the result of a bite from a 14ft Reticulated Python on a grown man. Just because it's not venomous, doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful.

Photo by Simon Heavlin


Simon Heavlin This particular bite included nerve and extensor tendon damage, as well as 2 arteries and a few veins being severed. Several pics and one short HD video are available LOL

Simon Heavlin This is my photo, as well as my arm, for the record this is only half the bite. He did in fact only tag me and release. He was latched on for maybe 20 seconds.



It takes someone with a lot of knowedge about these snakes, and the ability to deal with them.

The average reptile keeper can NOT handle these types of snakes.

Shift cages are looking better and better to me.
And I still believe a PHD in herpetology beats a random retic breeder with a teeny tiny apartment and a great big ego.............

I am no fan of government becoming involved in what people can own period, and would not support legislation outside of the states where the species in question can become invasive/establish populations. Which to my knowledge is only (southern) Florida for big constrictors. But in my experience, the vast majority of the buying public has no business with a giant constrictor. When I used to take in rescues, there were so many big pythons in terrible shape. And it was the same stereotypical dirtbags who bought them thinking they'd deal with them getting big when it happened. Well, if they survived, it happened. A stronger argument could be made to sway me that permits would be needed to stop the abuse of the animals than what they might inflict on their owners.

CM, I think you'd find yourself in friendlier company here if you'd drop the attitude. In principle, I agree with your points, but would just about vote for a permit system after your condescending arguments. oke: