Breeding info on subocs?

Can someone suggest a good resource for reading up on the particulars for breeding subocs? I'm not finding anything with a Google search so far. I've heard they can be difficult? Thanks!

I suggest Robbie as a resource.

Well, I did finally find a few good articles on them. I've been kicking around getting one for awhile but haven't really decided which morph or phase I like the best, which suggested I should get two, but if I do that, maybe it would be worth looking into breeding them. Kind of want one more species/breeding pair but they needed to fit certain criteria. So far it looks like they might. I'm still having a hard time finding anything in depth on their genetics though? Are most of the morphs phases or single genes?

Most of the morphs are single genes (Blonde, axanthic/silver, amel, etc), but more recently, double and triple traits have become available (silver blonde, snow, snow blonde). If you REALLY want some good info, pick Dusty Rhoads' brain. He's the ultimate suboc source, and is the reason we have some of the morphs we do today. Another good person to talk to would be Lee Abbott (he bred my boy).

Just a heads up, though, their breeding season doesn't really sync up with other N. American colubrids. They're more of a late in the season kind of deal. If I remember correctly, they start breeding in the summer and the hatchlings are pipping late fall/early winter. I haven't (successfully) bred subocs yet. I did try with a pair a few years ago, but the male was too small, and it never took. I'm looking forward to trying again in about 2 years, depending on whether or not my female stops being so picky! Haha

When you get babies they'll prefer live, or lizard scented. It can be kind of difficult to get them on to f/t, and sometimes even rodents at all. My male takes f/t just fine, but I have to let him chase it around the tank. The female won't touch it if it's not live, despite my best efforts.

Thanks Robbie! One of the other questions I had was, what's the average clutch size? Not finding that mentioned most places. Read one article that said 11 was the average high side? Size of clutch/litter is one of the big criteria we have for deciding on breeding a species, among other things.

Tavia said:

Thanks Robbie! One of the other questions I had was, what's the average clutch size? Not finding that mentioned most places. Read one article that said 11 was the average high side? Size of clutch/litter is one of the big criteria we have for deciding on breeding a species, among other things.

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Hm. I know clutch sizes are generally pretty small (compared to corns). I THINK 8-10 is going to be your average, unless you have a super huge female that likes to pump out eggs.

I'll do some more digging, and see what I can find out for you.

I had two successful clutches, both were single digit and one of only 3 eggs. Babies were a pain, which is saying something since I was working with mtn. kings and gray bands at the time. Mine came from Lee Abbott also. Females seem to run a lot smaller, and I've wondered if breeding them doesn't contribute to that. I wish I could give you more advice, but I kind of sold that project feeling like a failure with it. I would entertain keeping them again, but probably not to breed. They are certainly pretty and docile snakes.

Hmm, lots to think about! Thanks for the replies, everyone! Will probably get one or two for pets at least, I love their eyes! Seems like almost every species that we are interested in breeding and is near perfect in all other ways, are a major PITA to get eating! I wasn't reading anything about them being especially difficult to get eating in any of the articles but I wonder sometimes if those mostly gloss over those kinds of things?

Good Luck. I successfully bred them for about ten years & they will test your patience.