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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Questioning the strawberry gene
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:42 PM   #31
BSLMichael
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave partington View Post
Are you referring to a strawberry amel, strawberry anery, or a strawberry snow here?
I have never seen a classic with pink ground color.
Do you have a pic?
Not of my own but crotalis just posted one that looks similair to mine as well. I could take a picture but its with a camera phone
 
Old 01-01-2013, 05:04 PM   #32
Susan
So far, I've tried to avoid the whole strawberry gene vs. red factor/red coat issue as all it is going to do is confuse everything, myself included. I bred my JMG coral ghost male with a high pink TS snow female and did get about a 50:50 ratio of pink offspring with the snow males showing more color than the anerys, male and female. I'm not sure if the TS snow female has any hypo A in her lineage or not, but being a TS, anything is possible. I will say, there were no ghost offspring, the anerys were black at hatching and showed no indication of having any form of hypo in them, and the pink color is strictly in the ground and more easy to see in person than in a photo. My male snow keeper is just chock full of pink.

JMG Coral Ghost father
TS Snow mother
Anery male offspring (after first shed)
Anery female offspring (")
Anery female offspring (")
 
Old 01-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #33
Susan
Anery female offspring (after first shed)
Anery female offspring (")
Snow male offspring (")
Snow male offspring (")
 
Old 01-01-2013, 05:20 PM   #34
snakepunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave partington View Post
BINGO.
There is no strawberry gene in the JMG line CG/SS.
Of course breeding JMG line to strawberry gene produces strawberry stuff.
I suspect someone presented an assumption as a fact and then others procreated the myth.
Did Jeff test this? Although he is credited the most for these pink snakes, and perhaps he did improve the line, he got his animals from Jim Stelpflug. Jim is the originator of not only the salmons, but strawberry itself.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 05:20 PM   #35
Susan
My keeper anery female, and as usual, her pink is difficult to capture with my camera, and my keeper snow male, who is actually much pinker in person, but again, the color is difficult to capture with my camera and the flash. I'll try for better photos outside one of these days.

And 3 hypo siblings (het Sunkissed motley) that some have told me could have strawberry in het or homo form, but I really have no way of proving it one way or the other. It may have been red factor/red coat. I just can't remember, and honestly, don't care. I just like them!
 
Old 01-01-2013, 06:27 PM   #36
dave partington
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakepunk View Post
Did Jeff test this? Although he is credited the most for these pink snakes, and perhaps he did improve the line, he got his animals from Jim Stelpflug. Jim is the originator of not only the salmons, but strawberry itself.
True. Originator of strawberry, not the strawberry gene. A linebred trait,
further selective breedings including a few other traits & genes lead to the coral ghost line, and over generations as the genes became more interlaced came the high color coral ghosts
 
Old 01-01-2013, 07:21 PM   #37
chris68
Susan, Ione (TS snow) was possibly het hypo; both her F1 parents were positively het. Their father was a "pastel" ghost het amel, per Sean at VMS. Out of 7 kids you would have thought if she was we'd have seen ghosts last year, but that's not terribly uncommon when dealing with possible hets, as we all know Murphy plays his games...
 
Old 01-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #38
snakepunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave partington View Post
True. Originator of strawberry, not the strawberry gene. A linebred trait,
further selective breedings including a few other traits & genes lead to the coral ghost line, and over generations as the genes became more interlaced came the high color coral ghosts
So Dave, are you saying that there are two forms of strawberry, with one being polygentic? If so, what's the difference phenotypically?
 
Old 01-01-2013, 08:45 PM   #39
dave partington
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakepunk View Post
So Dave, are you saying that there are two forms of strawberry, with one being polygentic? If so, what's the difference phenotypically?
I'm not stating there are.
I'm stating that there appear to be.
I don't know the full genetic history of the individual snakes which were used to verify the 'strawberry gene'.
I do know that (from conversations with Jeff sr. at JMG) that the "strawberry" which was used back in the early formulation (f5 back or so) of the CG/SS -
-was a linebred trait which was developed by selective breeding and removal of non-strawberry-red stock from the original project to produce the first non-gene-strawberry-colored snakes.

This next portion is NOT inclusive of Bloodred/Diffused ,
I think a lot of persons have already shown that breeding a red snake to another red snake produces red snakes. Then any non-red snakes are discarded from the project, and F2 yields more red snakes. To put it another way, if you take a hundred different looking people of all races, eye color, hair color, foot shapes, etc, (assuming they do not have racial issues) and place them on an isolated island, and come back several generations later, they'll collectively look more similar then they did when dropped off there. After some more generations, they'll all look even more alike. Sure, there will still be the occasional recessive gene which pops up here and there, but the same is true for wild snakes. This is true of all locality types of snakes; they stay within a geographical region and so they begin to all look alike. For example, if one goes to the region where gray base Miami corns are found, they are all gray base-colored, but the farther away you go from that place, the fewer wild corns will have that gray base color. What I am describing here is genetic, but does not necessarily mean any one specific individual gene is responsible for their visual color.


So you take a w/c gray base Miami and breed it to an orange base-colored w/c central florida corn, and half the babies come out with gray base, the other half come out with orange base color in the F1. This does not prove that gray base or orange base are co-dominant. It simply shows you that half of the parents of the offspring were either orange or gray base. I suspect, it appears to me, this assertation that strawberry goes co-dominant in the F1 is not necessarily what is always actually going on, though it has been said a lot on forums and repeated a lot elsewhere. Then in the F2, sib to sib will produce the typical punnet square result, or F1 X either parent will produce the punnet-predictable results. But until someone actually takes the time to prove or disprove any of this, it's never going to be really known. In the meanwhile we'll be mixing up a lot of genes and traits even further, so much of the cs stock in existence is so far from whatever it originally was, etc.

The last couple paragraphs in this post are possibly related to the concept of this red stuff being a trait.
 
Old 01-04-2013, 11:19 AM   #40
snakepunk
After talking with several individuals here and "elsewhere", a few things are becoming apparent:

1. Without a microscope, one cannot identify strawberrys.

2. Well-known breeders, even those known for their strawberrys, have mistakenly identified and sold animals as strawberrys that are not.

3. Different breeders have different definitions/qualifications for what is and what isn't "strawberry".

4. A lot of people are assuming (which may or may not be the case) that ALL those crazy pink coral/salmon ghost and snows are strawberry.

And finally,
5. If enough people perpetuate something as fact, even if it is not, it gets accepted as the truth, despite evidence to the contrary.
 

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