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General Chit-Chat Forum Discussion about general topics that are really off topic concerning corn snakes, or just about any old chit at all.

President May be in Trouble
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:37 PM   #91
Carinata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova_C View Post
Believe it or not, I am all for smaller government and less governmental interference in people's private lives. Unfortunately people like Carinata exist, who want to tell gay couples that they aren't allowed to get married because marriage is, for some reason, not for them. So we have to step up and create a law to protect the rights of the few from the tyranny of the many.

In my opinion, that is the sole responsibility of government. If the tyranny of the majority did not exist, then government would be completely unnecessary. But it does.

And so we make do.
It's terribly unfortunate I exist. I said allow them to get the benefits of marriage, but call it something like a civil union. That's a compromise. I'm sorry I'm such an awful person. Your comment was unnecessary and immature.
 
Old 05-26-2012, 11:07 PM   #92
vliberatore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova_C View Post
It sure can.

A lot of people didn't think Blacks should have equal rights either, and there was certainly a lot of opposition to women's suffrage.

Sometimes the people are wrong and change needs to be shoved down their throats. This is one of those times.

No. Generations bring change, governments do not. A collective shift of mindeset is what made these go from acceptable to wrong.

Who knows, maybe in the future we'll be scoffed at by future generations for our use of fossil fuels and nonrenewable resources. It is fine now, but in 100 years, it may be "wrong". Who are you to say what is right and wrong?
 
Old 05-26-2012, 11:31 PM   #93
Nova_C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinata View Post
It's terribly unfortunate I exist. I said allow them to get the benefits of marriage, but call it something like a civil union. That's a compromise. I'm sorry I'm such an awful person. Your comment was unnecessary and immature.
So, Separate but equal?

I don't know if you're an awful person. But you are trying to decide what is 'allowed' for a gay couple. What does it matter to you whether they get married or not? Why do you believe some couples should have a 'marriage' while other couples get a 'civil union'?

vliberatore, it takes generations to change the beliefs of society. It takes a government to protect an oppressed minority. Go and read about the suicides in Anoka-Hennepin and you tell me that there isn't a horrific oppression going on, that we should allow this abuse to go on and on because 'one day, some day, it'll change.'

It won't. Not until we draw a line and tell people they can no longer cross it.
 
Old 05-27-2012, 12:06 AM   #94
Carinata
Nova, have you ever lived in the United States?
 
Old 05-27-2012, 12:08 AM   #95
Michael823
So Obama is just doing this for votes?... We have overwhelmingly more states that outlaw same-sex marriages that those that allow it. So please tell me of this secret voting pool that you see.

It's just another example of the anti-ism. It's another attempt to say "Yeah, he might be for gay marriage (which is a strong statement towards social justice and equality), but he didn't really mean it". Which is reminiscent of the "Yeah, he might have been born here (in America), but I still don't think he's Christian". Or the other "Well, OBL was killed on his watch, but he was too arrogant about it to give him credit".

If people can't give credit where it's due, it's a redundant discussion. The only goal is progress, and some of his decisions as president have been of incredible progress.
 
Old 05-27-2012, 12:10 AM   #96
Carinata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael823 View Post
So Obama is just doing this for votes?... We have overwhelmingly more states that outlaw same-sex marriages that those that allow it. So please tell me of this secret voting pool that you see.

It's just another example of the anti-ism. It's another attempt to say "Yeah, he might be for gay marriage (which is a strong statement towards social justice and equality), but he didn't really mean it". Which is reminiscent of the "Yeah, he might have been born here (in America), but I still don't think he's Christian". Or the other "Well, OBL was killed on his watch, but he was too arrogant about it to give him credit".

If people can't give credit where it's due, it's a redundant discussion. The only goal is progress, and some of his decisions as president have been of incredible progress.
So what we say doesn't have to be genuine, as long as it is progressive? If your foundation is flawed, it just leads to a bigger eventual collapse.
 
Old 05-27-2012, 12:14 AM   #97
Michael823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinata View Post
Nova, have you ever lived in the United States?
This is the most ridiculous argument one person could make. There is so much diversity in this country socioeconomically, culturally, progressively, etc... for you do be so arrogant as to question someone else for their personal American experience.

I'm sure that many of the southern states would hold some ideals of no value to some of the more progressive and liberal states. So Nova would most likely have a more validated political opinion in some of those states than you could scratch the surface on having with your own experience, if confronted with views of those in other American states.
 
Old 05-27-2012, 12:20 AM   #98
Michael823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinata View Post
So what we say doesn't have to be genuine, as long as it is progressive? If your foundation is flawed, it just leads to a bigger eventual collapse.
Wrong. If your results are that of people's hopes and expectations, why is there such a need to even question the intent.

Sure, we could all dumb it down and argue about people's true intention. But we're not trying to seat a prophet. We want physical change/progress, and some people aren't so privileged to start demanding what form that comes in. If it's by accident or favor, it still benefits us to have social changes such as allowing same-sex marriage (on behalf of equal rights and social justice). So for the more privileged, to who may not have any stake in these issues, it's fun to just throw dirt and rocks. But for people who do care to live in a truly free and equal society, they're not squabbling over how the change came about.
 
Old 05-27-2012, 12:26 AM   #99
Carinata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael823 View Post
This is the most ridiculous argument one person could make. There is so much diversity in this country socioeconomically, culturally, progressively, etc... for you do be so arrogant as to question someone else for their personal American experience.

I'm sure that many of the southern states would hold some ideals of no value to some of the more progressive and liberal states. So Nova would most likely have a more validated political opinion in some of those states than you could scratch the surface on having with your own experience, if confronted with views of those in other American states.
Arrogant? Really? If you've never lived here, it's like the kid who runs around on the internet compiling all the information he can about snakes. But he's never owned one a single day in his life. When he finally gets a snake all that research is never going to be as good as hands on experience.

If you're not from America, you don't necessarily know how it works here. There's this thing called "assimilation" and people who come here from otehr countries learn our culture, and how we act.

See part of the reason were so divided is because we're so diverse. Is that a bad thing? Not always, but it often leads to divisions.

Marriage has always been between a man and a woman, let's preserve that and call it something else. It's a compromise. It's a common ground compromise that appeals to both sides IMO. Your never going to please everyone. It's not separate but equal. Equal benefits, equal tax breaks, equal everything. It's just not called marriage.
 
Old 05-27-2012, 12:35 AM   #100
Carinata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael823 View Post
Wrong. If your results are that of people's hopes and expectations, why is there such a need to even question the intent.

Sure, we could all dumb it down and argue about people's true intention. But we're not trying to seat a prophet. We want physical change/progress, and some people aren't so privileged to start demanding what form that comes in. If it's by accident or favor, it still benefits us to have social changes such as allowing same-sex marriage (on behalf of equal rights and social justice). So for the more privileged, to who may not have any stake in these issues, it's fun to just throw dirt and rocks. But for people who do care to live in a truly free and equal society, they're not squabbling over how the change came about.
So sentiment means nothing? If Obama really hates all gays but is saying he doesn't just to get re-elected it's still a good thing.

This is the problem with the general liberal population, they think everything everyone says is from the heart, they think no body lies, they think an equal society is achievable. When it's not. Everybody lies, there will be sin and evil in this world until the very end, we have to work through it and strive for a better society, but we can never make it perfect.
 

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