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Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

wade said:
Yes Walmart as a hole should solve the problem. That is the whole point of this law. The problem has existed for a very long time and has steadily gotten worse. Walmart has said lots of fancy sounding things but has not solved the problem. The electronics department has finally decided they were going to have to do it them selves or they were going to run out of inventory.
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BUT the electronics department simply can't make okay for their security guards to stereotypically harass clients because they belong to a race that statistically steals more than others.
 
All that law really does as far as I'm concerned is makes Arizona one of those least desired places to visit.
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I love Arizona - I love visiting there. I don't like going to a US NATIONAL PARK and being advised to be careful because they have problems with ILLEGALS cutting through the park in to the United States and ATTACKING tourists on their way.

I say KUDOS to AZ to finally standing up to an ongoing problem that our NATIONAL GOVERNMENT seems loathe to do anything about. Personally, I don't care if you want to call it racial profiling or discrimination or what ever. Maybe if the people who were coming here ILLEGALLY were not mainly latinos from any where south of the border there wouldn't be a need for it to be "racial profiling". But until you have a lot of blonde germans or redheaded irish crossing the mexican border illegally - then obviously the people they are going to be looking for are going to be of hispanic descent.
 
Tara80 said:
Mrs. Z, I understand your concern but now there are MANY more ways to tell if someone is legal or not. Valid drivers license, proof of insurance (which are two items that are required to be on you anyway) and the registration systems. As far as I know, most police cars have a computer system and ways to look up anyone who is legal.
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But if they cannot see on an ID whether you are who you say you are, looking you up in the system is of no value....
 
jpccusa said:
But, AZ passing this law not only doesn't solve the problem of the 11-13 million illegal immigrants (not only Mexicans Tsst) already here, it causes a problem in other states due to exodus, and it jeopardizes the well being of their own legal citizens, as I mentioned my friends in the OP.

BTW, I feel the need to clarify I don't think it is okay to break laws (even though I sometimes break a few and hope to not get caught doing it).
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The article I read said 11-13 million with a vast majority being from our southern borders. I did kind of jump to a conclusion that they were Mexican, for that I apologize.

The exodus was what I was referring to in my last comment about feeling bad for the folks in California. Texas is already looking into it and I imagine New Mexico would be at least starting to investigate. Given that the last governor in Cali wanted to give illegals a drivers license they may have their arms wide open on the west coast. Of course that may be a contributing factor in some of California's financial issues too. :shrugs:

I am not sure how catching criminals jeopardizes the well being of legal citizens?
 
ArpeggioAngel said:
I love Arizona - I love visiting there. I don't like going to a US NATIONAL PARK and being advised to be careful because they have problems with ILLEGALS cutting through the park in to the United States and ATTACKING tourists on their way.

I say KUDOS to AZ to finally standing up to an ongoing problem that our NATIONAL GOVERNMENT seems loathe to do anything about. Personally, I don't care if you want to call it racial profiling or discrimination or what ever. Maybe if the people who were coming here ILLEGALLY were not mainly latinos from any where south of the border there wouldn't be a need for it to be "racial profiling". But until you have a lot of blonde germans or redheaded irish crossing the mexican border illegally - then obviously the people they are going to be looking for are going to be of hispanic descent.
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THIS.

Exactly. Could not have said it better.
 
ArpeggioAngel said:
I love Arizona - I love visiting there. I don't like going to a US NATIONAL PARK and being advised to be careful because they have problems with ILLEGALS cutting through the park in to the United States and ATTACKING tourists on their way.

I say KUDOS to AZ to finally standing up to an ongoing problem that our NATIONAL GOVERNMENT seems loathe to do anything about. Personally, I don't care if you want to call it racial profiling or discrimination or what ever. Maybe if the people who were coming here ILLEGALLY were not mainly latinos from any where south of the border there wouldn't be a need for it to be "racial profiling". But until you have a lot of blonde germans or redheaded irish crossing the mexican border illegally - then obviously the people they are going to be looking for are going to be of hispanic descent.
Click to expand...

Katie, I had to rep you for this post. Spot on.
 
Just to clarify a bit as well - I have no problems with anyone of latino heritage. I am not prejudiced. If you are here legally - then more power to you. This is a great country to live in. I can understand why people want to come here legally or illegally. However, just like the great immigrations of the late 1800's and early 1900's from Europe - if you want to come and live here and take advantage of all this country has to offer - do it the right way. Come here through legal channels. Pay your taxes like the rest of us do. Don't make us responsible for your healthcare and don't take away jobs from the actual citizens of this country. No matter how you spin it - there is nothing RIGHT about that. My great grandparents came over from Germany and worked their butts off to do it the right way. And now there are people who want to support illegals coming in and just TAKING whatever they want - jobs, money, healthcare - and not having to pay for it? Where is the sense in that? How can anyone in their right mind actually support that?
 
tsst said:
I am not sure how catching criminals jeopardizes the well being of legal citizens?
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If in the process of catching "criminals" (to be in the US illegally is not a crime. To be caught crossing the border is) you discriminate against everyone who may look like a criminal, then you are jeopardizing the well being of legal citizens. Also, if the process of catching them will drive business away from the state, and if it will also increase LE spending, then it again jeopardizes the state's citizens.
In my opinion, the law will not catch enough illegal immigrants to put the state better off by tipping the scale "cost of the new law"/"cost previous to the law" in favor of the former.
 
Blutengel said:
Do those people also think using profiling expertise to find a killer is discriminating?
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Except that when profiling to find a murderer, they don't say things like "Well, a white person was killed. Musta been a black guy who did it." That's the equivalent of this law. "We're near Mexico, so we hafta check all them latinos." Never mind the Asians, the Jamaicans, Haitians, Cubans... and yes, Canadians and Europeans, that are here illegally. It's only the Mexicans we need to go after, apparently.
 
JP you are entitled to your opinion. 70% of the Arizona residents that voted for this law are entitled to theirs. They felt the problem associated with illegals coming across the boarder was great enough they are willing to take the risk that a few people may be inconvenienced or annoyed. You live in a state that is going broke because of all the social welfare programs they have. You state will welcome the illegals that flee Arizona and I believe the Arizona residents will thank you.

In the mean time you can help the federal government to do what they should have been doing for the 100 years while this problem was coming to a head.
 
Shiari said:
Except that when profiling to find a murderer, they don't say things like "Well, a white person was killed. Musta been a black guy who did it." That's the equivalent of this law. "We're near Mexico, so we hafta check all them latinos." Never mind the Asians, the Jamaicans, Haitians, Cubans... and yes, Canadians and Europeans, that are here illegally. It's only the Mexicans we need to go after, apparently.
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If there was a murder and the number one suspect was a white guy, the police would not be looking for black guys. In Arizona the number one suspect for illegal immigrants is a Mexican. It would be foolish for the Arizona police to be looking for Germans. Why is that hard to understand.

If a 7-11 is held up and the clerk says that it was a couple of Asian looking men the police will be profiling for Black Women. Right?
 
ArpeggioAngel said:
Just to clarify a bit as well - I have no problems with anyone of latino heritage. I am not prejudiced. If you are here legally - then more power to you. This is a great country to live in. I can understand why people want to come here legally or illegally. However, just like the great immigrations of the late 1800's and early 1900's from Europe - if you want to come and live here and take advantage of all this country has to offer - do it the right way. Come here through legal channels. Pay your taxes like the rest of us do. Don't make us responsible for your healthcare and don't take away jobs from the actual citizens of this country. No matter how you spin it - there is nothing RIGHT about that. My great grandparents came over from Germany and worked their butts off to do it the right way. And now there are people who want to support illegals coming in and just TAKING whatever they want - jobs, money, healthcare - and not having to pay for it? Where is the sense in that? How can anyone in their right mind actually support that?
Click to expand...

According to this website "illegal immigration may be a "problem" and have costs, but they are not going to sink our national economy, or any individual state for that matter"
More can be read here.

And although I do support an immigration reform, I don't support "illegals coming in and just TAKING whatever they want - jobs, money, healthcare" although they will pay for it once the immigration reform comes through.

BTW, many illegal immigrants do pay taxes and never receive anything back (in case they are due).
Also, many illegal immigrants never use public healthcare. Many have insurance through employers or private.
 
wade said:
JP you are entitled to your opinion. 70% of the Arizona residents that voted for this law are entitled to theirs. They felt the problem associated with illegals coming across the boarder was great enough they are willing to take the risk that a few people may be inconvenienced or annoyed. You live in a state that is going broke because of all the social welfare programs they have. You state will welcome the illegals that flee Arizona and I believe the Arizona residents will thank you.

In the mean time you can help the federal government to do what they should have been doing for the 100 years while this problem was coming to a head.
Click to expand...

I understand their frustration. If I had illegal immigrants, many of them dangerous, armed, and carrying contraband, littering my backyard and threatening my well being, I would also vote for a state law that would try to stop that from happening.
It is easy for me, living in a very safe area, to dislike the law. I just am concerned for the verbiage of the law, which should be more specific. Like you said, we may be freaking out for no reason, but the calls for boycott are already out there and my friends in AZ will soon begin to feel the effects of a not thorough thought law.
 
jpccusa said:
BUT the electronics department simply can't make okay for their security guards to stereotypically harass clients because they belong to a race that statistically steals more than others.
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Why not though? If I am a farmer and packs of coyotes keep eating my chickens and goats, I am gonna be looking out for coyotes. Of course large pythons are known to eat chickens and small goats too if they find one...but I dont see packs of pythons around this country. So yes...the farmer should be looking out for coyotes that are trying to eat his chickens and goats and doing what he can to keep them at bay much more than he should try to use up his limited resources to search for the occasional python (that some tart in Florida probably released) and eats once every couple weeks to a month. That farmer is an idiot if he does not relegate the majority of his efforts to curtail the coyote threat.

When I cut myself and bleed from it, I put a band-aid on my cut, not on my whole body.
 
wade said:
If there was a murder and the number one suspect was a white guy, the police would not be looking for black guys. In Arizona the number one suspect for illegal immigrants is a Mexican. It would be foolish for the Arizona police to be looking for Germans. Why is that hard to understand.

If a 7-11 is held up and the clerk says that it was a couple of Asian looking men the police will be profiling for Black Women. Right?
Click to expand...



I have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, I have to try again later.
 
wade said:
If a 7-11 is held up and the clerk says that it was a couple of Asian looking men the police will be profiling for Black Women. Right?
Click to expand...

Considering that people have been picked up despite being the wrong race of the alleged perpetrator...

After all, if cops looking for a tall, thin, hispanic man can surround and try to arrest for the crime a short, fat, black kid...

What if the legal person pulled over has a job that does not allow being late to work? What if they get pulled over and checked multiple times? ... And then they get fired. That's not an 'inconvenience'. Oh dear, now they need unemployment benefits.
What if the legal person they've pulled over is on their way to pick up a child? Or has a child with them in the car?


Edit:

And more on the story:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/91769419.html

A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) returned 3TV’s calls after researching the incident and she said this was standard operating procedure.

The agents needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone's birth certificate. She also said this has nothing to do with the proposed bill or racial profiling.
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Well, time for all of us to start carrying our birth certificate with us. Hope you don't lose your wallet folks. Not racial profiling my white rear end. I doubt I will ever be pulled over and asked for my birth certificate.
 
airenlow said:
The only people that have anything to fear are the illegals. Legit citizens don't have anything to worry about. So you might be asked for your ID...big deal!
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I apologize for not reading through the entire thread, but just had to comment on this post.

Sorry, but your line of thinking is a slippery slope and opens Pandora's box. This is no different than when the government was wanting to listen in on people's phone conversations: "if you aren't a terrorist, you have nothing to worry about". Doesn't matter if I have anything to worry about, this is a BIG step towards a big brother society where government is constantly checking in on you.

Sorry, but this law is un-American and it should be struck down by the SCOTUS when it gets there (which it undoubtedly will).

If we want to get serious about illegal immigration we need to get rid of the demand. And that starts with employers. Make the penalties so stiff and so severe, that they won't dare hire anyone unless they're 110% sure who they're hiring is 100% legal. First offense give them severe monetary fines, 2nd offense, fines and jail time for the employers.
 
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