$4000 Squirrel

I can't really say that I consider that instance fair chase, but hey, what are you gonna do? There needs to be some sort of control and they (the Bison) don't seem to be too stressed over it.
I'm thinking that the state is making a pretty penny on those tags, hopefully some of that money will go back into the preservation of what's left of ole Buff.
In my opinion, the Buff is more in danger from the disappearance of thier natural range then in a few culling hunts.

People who think credit cards are necessary, are the same types of people who typically cannot be "good" every month and pay it off. Its better to not have the temptation at all, and keep your money and spend it wisely than have the temptation to over-spend what you can't pay for the next month. My parents have never owned a credit card, and they own free and clear: 9 acres, a house, 2 barns, 2 brand new vehicles, older vehicles and a brand new John Deere tractor. Don't tell me credit cards are required.

Its all about priorities. Most people I know or have come into contact with are extremely childish with their personal finances. I've actually seen people in Walmart agonize over a brand new stereo and being able to afford the gallons of milk to feed their twin infants. I just wanted to smack them upside the head.

We didn't have a problem getting a $180k house a year ago at a 6% interest rate. Both of us being 24. My husband earned over $80k last year alone, me a measly $10k.

Most of our credit came from revolving accounts that aren't credit cards. Car loan payments, rent, utility bills, student loan payments, etc.

Its amazing how many "Debt Relief of America" and similar company commercials you see in a given night compared to just 10 years ago. The average savings rate for Americans is 0%, the WORST in the world. We're over-spending our arses and not saving for a rainy day. Most of us my age and a little older are pretty sure Social (In)security isn't going to be there when we get to the age of retirement. I've long since stopped trusting the government on how to spend my money for every day things, let alone saving it for me. It should be my job to do that. Back when the original colonies were founded, you didn't see them hoarding pigs of another person for that person's winter rations. You had to prepare things for yourself, you can't expect other people to do it for you. Social (In)security spoled a lot of people into thinking the government was all good and well and could do it for you. I can't even trust the President into making rational decisions about information that was obviously false, or Senators/Representatives continually voting for their own pay raises...while most of America squanders. If America was a business, we'd be going bankrupt. =(

We went through a Dave Ramsey course last fall for 3 months. Totally paid for by Toyota (husband's employer) and it was a real eye opener. We've actually been able to live on a budget, set money aside, and occasionally splurge on those random late night Walmart ventures. If you can take one of his classes or hear him speak locally, it is well worth the time and money. He doesn't ask you to buy anything, its not a get rich scheme, its about being mature and making choices. And in one year, I can see the difference he's had in our monetary lives. He's also on local radio broadcasts around the country, and is very entertaining to listen to. http://www.daveramsey.com/




I think Texas has a lot of those fenced game ranches, now that's something that is like shooting fish in a barrel, no matter how big the barrel. It just seems inherently wrong.

The bison hunt doesn't really bother me whether they're smart enough to run or not. Half of the deer around here don't flinch when you mow the yard 20ft away. I could have had several before hunting season even started.

I've also read in a few local papers/articles, that its only certain herds that annually leave the park in the winter, not all of them in the park. So the ones that get hunted when they left if they became wary of humans, I don't think it'd be a drop in the bucket to the lazy ones pooping all over the geyser flats all year long for the tourists to stop traffic for hours over.

After driving through Yellowstone multiple times, they could use a reduction in numbers, to be honest. Everything seemed over-grazed, a good idea that isn't so good in the long run. Then again, I'm an "outsider", so what I feel doesn't really matter, or so the cattle barons say.

For the amount of wildlife that Yellowstone contains, its in a very precarious balance. It'd be nice if C.U.T. would sell or be forced to sell their huge track of land adjacent to the park. Nothing more creepy than a white pickup with 3 men following you for miles on the back roads. =P

Personally, it'd be nice if the ranchers adjacent to the park would ranch bison, instead of domestic cattle, and be done with it. I get so sick of hearing about wolves or bears attacking cattle, and the ranchers wanting to shoot the predators who're only doing as they're intended.

Well who in their right mind wouldn't attack a cow? They're dumber than a creek rock and stand there and stare while animals eat their newborn. At least bison have a built in fear of wolves and bears and can better withstand that threat as well as the exteme climate in the area. Not to mention, bison meat tastes SO much better than domestic cattle.

I can't blame the predators for trying to get into my chicken pen. I only shot the coons I found within the pen with chicken in mouth. But now that the pen is rebuilt better than Ft. Knox, it doesn't bother me that they're "window shopping".

As for the brucellosis thing. I'm not entirely familiar of it or its vectors of transmission, but how can bison/elk/deer live with it...yet we're afraid of it getting to cattle? Are the cattle unfit to eat after contracting it? Do they die quickly? Sometimes I have to wonder if trying to stave off every pathogen is a good idea. Its going to happen one day sooner or later, you can't avoid it. Best to try to breed brucellosis resistant cattle in the meantime (and no, not genetically altered cows).

If you have animals in a clean-room environment, pretty soon something that is normally minor is going to cause havoc. I read an article in a science magazine a couple of years ago that has said that humans wouldn't be what we are today had it not been for the viruses and pathogens, us evoloving to deal with such things. Like sickle-cell anemia being a benefit in malaria prone areas of the world.

Ok, I'll end my rant now. I return you to your regularly scheduled argument. =)

People who think credit cards are necessary, are the same types of people who typically cannot be "good" every month and pay it off. Its better to not have the temptation at all, and keep your money and spend it wisely than have the temptation to over-spend what you can't pay for the next month.

Not necessarily, that's a generalization. I pay mine every month religiously to avoid interest charges. Those who can't avoid giving in to temptation need to learn self control but that's not just with their credit. Agreed, debt is bad to have but sometimes things happen and it's unavoidable. I am very proud that I worked so hard to get myself out of the hole I was in with collection agencies and so forth - but I got myself into that debt before I ever even had my first credit card. I was in a very bad accident and no insurance. I am very lucky to be alive, it was that bad. So not every debt is caused by frivolous money habits.
Even if you don't have an actual card you still need credit and the cards are tools that will help you build it, IF used responsibly.

Originally Posted by Taceas

I think Texas has a lot of those fenced game ranches, now that's something that is like shooting fish in a barrel, no matter how big the barrel. It just seems inherently wrong.

Not exactly. What you are thinking of are exotic ranches. They breed non-indigenous, but free-ranging, herds of exotic deer and antelope that thrive in the warmer and more arid parts of Texas. These game ranches are surrounded by high fences that form a two-way barrier in order to prevent the accidental mixing of non-native animals and pathogens with native herds.

Most of these ranches have limited herd sizes and cover thousands, even tens of thousands of acres of raw and unimproved land. The limited hunting permits that are available are based on an annual population census and would hardly qualify as a canned hunt IMO.

Misty,

I applaud you and your husbands efforts to be financially independant in your later years. More people should try to think a little more like that IMHO.

In Australia (where I'm from) the soc.sec.system is pretty good with everything from chlid healthcare, education and aged care but I think sometimes it can be a little too easy for people who don't want to work to live off handouts.

Here in Sweden (all of Scandinavia really) it's brilliant. You pay awful taxes but it's so clear that the money is spent on 'the people' so it's OK. My fiancé's grandfather passed away in April and in the months before his death, he and his wife had home care helpers coming 5-6 times a day to help with everything from hygiene and dressing to meals and cleaning. Now that his grandmother is widowed (and honestly quite senile), she still has the right to remain in her own home and have home help for the rest of her days. Some people would think it's cruel to leave a 93 year old alone in the house ...but that's how she's always expressed that she wants it and it's proven to be more stressful to move mentally deteriorating elders into nursing homes...I digress.



You get out what you put in is what I'm trying to say. The top tax bracket in Denmark is 69% and top tax in Sweden is 58% but wages are higher in the end, so when you look at after tax incomes to cost of living it's not bad and then when you look at community and social services in the end...it's sooo worth it.

A system like this takes decades to get right and in a political environment where offering tax cut after tax cut whilst increasing public spending seems to be the way o get the vote, I'm sorry to say that the peace of mind we enjoy here is likely to be a long time coming to your neck of the woods.

Maybe i am way of base and i skipped the part about credit cards and finanical independence. But the 4000 for a squirrell part is what i would like to comment on.

On a trip like that your not just paying to bag an animal for trophy or meat your paying for the experince of the hunt. The fact that it was an unguided hunt and most where lucky says alot there about the skill and experince it took on the hunt. Its the experince of being outdoors stalking, and trailing game. The fact of being with freinds and getting away from it all. I think its well worth it for the price of 4000 dollars. The fact that he was able to fire his weapon on squirrell was just an added bonus on the trip.

Originally Posted by cowboyman13

Maybe i am way of base and i skipped the part about credit cards and finanical independence. But the 4000 for a squirrell part is what i would like to comment on.

lol how dare you put this tread on topic again! lol

But yes I agree, experiences like that aren't about the money.

Well if the experience of being out in nature with your closest friends is what it's all about, why not spend a whole lot less money and not do the shooting part --->or perhaps spend that money on some awesome binoculars or a really nice camera and still go out into the nature with your friends but come home with some 'glossy' trophies of a different sort?

BTW, Please don't put a PETA spin on my comments...I love being out in nature and some of my favorite holidays have been camping and bushwalking trips but I don't see the fun in exploding a squirrel.

Shooting a dear and having some delicious meat to eat as a result I can totally appreciate though!

Most of the men in my family are or have been into hunting, but I still don't get it.
I understand the need for hunting from an environmental standpoint and I enjoy good venison or elk meat as much as anyone. But the trophy thing escapes me. I remember seeing a hunting show some Sunday and the man was talking about this beautiful rack on some big buck he had laying there. All I could think was it probably looked a whole lot prettier with a butt attached.
I don't want a stuffed cow or pig head on my wall, why on earth would I want a deer, elk, moose, whatever up there either. And not much of a trophy unless the deer was playing even and had a nice shotgun too. When it comes down to it, all you did was bring home dinner. I just don't get it

What I don't get is just because some people don't 'get' what other people do, they want them to stop or do something else.

I guess you just have to be a hunter to 'get' it.

To each his own, the world is big enough of all types.

P.S. The field is far from even when comparing man and wild animal. Deer for instance see about much better then man, hear much better, smell much better and run MUCH faster. Firearms are the result of mans brain being much better, giving us the advantage and making us the top predator. If all were even then man just might not be at the top and we'd be in the middle of someone else's food chain.