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Behavior General topics or questions concerning the way your cornsnake may be acting.

Corn With BAD Attitude
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:32 PM   #21
MysticExotics
I've had a number of SK Corns that have been feistier than others.

Not necessarily a morph thing, but I've heard that it's not uncommon for snakes that were problem feeders as babies can sometimes produce babies that are problem feeders as well.

Back on the feisty thing, that tends to lead to easy feeders, IMO, in the ones I've had.

There was some discussion on that a few years back, and I recall seeing someone saying they were going to work on producing "more handleable" Cornsnakes.

To each their own, but I see that could potentially cause a decline in quality/healthy snakes. Look what it has done to so many dog breeds, when "breeders" water down working traits on working dogs to make their better suited for "pet homes".

Outcrossing is important, especially in these scenarios, not necessarily to "normals" but separate blood lines.
Too much inbreeding is having an impact on the quality/health of babies being produced. With snakes, it's different than with dogs, you can do some inbreeding or linebreeding, but there are limits.

How many 1.1 pairs of a clutch are some, only to be bred when they're old enough, and 1.1 pairs are sold, and bred, and so forth. That's a LOT of continued inbreeding.
Inbreeding/line breeding can be done to bring out desired traits, but too much can and will weaken genetics.

I had to take a step back in my breeding projects, but I hope in a couple years, I'll be able to ramp that back up.
 
Old 06-18-2018, 01:32 PM   #22
Raven
All very valid points. I wasn't suggesting inline breeding though I know it does occur to bring about the morphs we see. I am also not suggesting to breed aggression into lines either. I am simply curious as to linkage or coincidence for behavior traits and morphs.

It would make sense that behavior could be individualized and passed down as seen in other animals. This could be possibly be why we are seeing SKs and Okeetees being a bit on the feisty side especially if line breed and temperament diluted when outcrossed.

As far as the feeding behavior, my big anery male has never been a problem feeder and you can practically put your hand in there when he's eating. He got the name Vladimir for a reason. On the other hand, one of my much less outgoing and somewhat cranky snakes was picky on what she'd eat. Who knows. Lots of variables and a long term project.... also potentially lots of hatchlings having to be kept or followed up with new owners.
 
Old 06-18-2018, 01:38 PM   #23
MysticExotics
I was replying in general, not to anyone specific. I hope no one took exception to it.

There 's still so much to be learned about snake genetics.
 
Old 06-18-2018, 03:04 PM   #24
Raven
Oh, I didn't think it was directed at me or anyone in particular.
 
Old 06-18-2018, 06:19 PM   #25
Rich Z
Heck, I always found the Amber Corns I had produced were about the easiest going of the bunch. Very inquisitive and seemed to want to have human company. I would have to say they were my favorites because of the personality traits.

And for years, Connie bred her leopard geckos, not for looks, but for personalities. And she got dramatic results, too. Newly hatched babies learned VERY quickly who the "mom" was, and would clamor to be taken out of their cages to be held.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgUiAmgMezs
 
Old 06-18-2018, 06:45 PM   #26
Raven
Rich Z that's awesome! That's how my anerys are too. I wonder if you'd get the same results with corns as with geckos?
 
Old 06-19-2018, 12:11 AM   #27
Rich Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
Rich Z that's awesome! That's how my anerys are too. I wonder if you'd get the same results with corns as with geckos?
It would make sense that personality traits would be just as influenced by the genetic makeup as colors and patterns are, so why not? But I think it would be a bit more difficult to measure results immediately in the offspring as you can with colors and patterns. Most of the time, anyway.
 
Old 06-19-2018, 11:50 AM   #28
Twolunger
It's hard to judge the results of breeding for personality traits when most corns are already personable. It would be much easier if 75 or 80 percent of corn snakes showed aggressive tendencies and you could work with the remaining percentages to set the desired personality traits.

I helped a friend move all his pythons to Georgia. He had some beauties but each time we stopped in front of a cage they would strike at us, thus hitting the glass. To each his own, as they say, but I'd never want to keep an aggressive snake that was over 10 feet long. I asked him why he would keep snakes like that and he said the value is in the morph, not how nice they handled.
 
Old 06-19-2018, 12:32 PM   #29
Raven
I wouldn't really want to own any animal that's overly aggressive. If they are only breeding for color/pattern/morph then there probably would be a health/temperament trade-off. I'm sure not everyone breeds strictly on appearance, or at least I would hope not.

Yes, a behavior/personality study would be very long term and difficult. There are definitely differences. I have some that will hide almost all the time and others that will follow you around to get your attention. Then there are the crabbier corns.... The possibility that out going attention seeking traits are inheritable or linked to a morph seems very plausible, though difficult to confim, in my opinion.
 
Old 06-19-2018, 02:58 PM   #30
Rich Z
I remember doing a show, and one of the corns I brought along (I don't remember the cultivar, unfortunately), copped an attitude at the thought that I wanted to sell him. He just became EXTREMELY anti-social, and was striking at everything that came near the display case on the table. I had to pull him out, and of course, he bit the heck out of me in the process. What really was unusual was that he was biting me right through the bag whenever my hand touched against him. Never saw a corn snake do that before. But obviously he wanted to draw blood, and literally jumped at the chance if offered.

Anyway, not sure how the conversation turned to it, but I mentioned to a guy in front of the tables about this feisty creature I had bagged up in back, and he expressed interest. I told him I was considering just tossing him out the door of the vehicle on the way home up route 75. Maybe even slowing down a little before the toss. (Kidding..... well, maybe not ) He asked to take a look at him, and of course the monster was biting everything he could get in front of his nose. These were not little nibbles, but full out BITES, really putting his heart into it! The guy said he liked animals with "spunk" to them, so I just gave him the thing and good riddance. I just hope that corn snake didn't wind up killing the guy. I'd feel pretty bad about that. But I do hope he never bred that thing. I would hate to think offspring with that temperament are out there somewhere.

And speaking of sort of attitude, I remember the first year I was successful produce gray banded king babies. I had something like 40 of them hatch out, and I was ecstatic! Gorgeous little living gem animals! That wouldn't eat pinky mice to save their lives. Or my sanity. None of them. So I had to buy house geckos and tried to rustle up some local Sceloporus to keep them alive until eventually some went over to pinky mice via the scenting route. WAY labor intensive! Tell you what, that burned me out of my interest in gray banded kings in a hurry. And I have had corn snakes the same way. The original line of Bloodred corns used to be like that. They were terribly difficult to get feeding.

Some animals are just not going to play by the rules that you want them to play by. Expect losses, and expect some aggravation and disappointments. They will be inevitable, so you might as well just accept it and plan on dealing with it beforehand.
 

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