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Don Soderberg's Palmetto

Shiari said:
F1 is the first generation. F2 is the second. That means that the normal offspring from the palmetto and the female were the F1- no palmettos produced. Breeding the offspring together, or back to the palmetto produced a second generation, this time with Palmettos. Because these appeared in the F2, it showed it was a recessive trait.
Click to expand...

LOL I know what F-1, F-2, etc. is. I also know How/What was produced and proving out Palmetto to be recessive. What I did not understand was the exact thing that Robbie wrote (with the "^").;)

However, what I was saying, to Doug, is that I guess it depends on how you read "Did the f1 generation produce Palmetto babies".
IOW:
If it was meant "were there any Palmettos in the F-1's" ... well, the answer is no.
If it was meant "did the F-1's, ~themselves~, produce Palmettos" ... well, the answer is Yes.:)
 
I believe, and Don can correct me if I'm wrong, that the palmetto is the first evidence of leucism in corns. Leucism is an oddball mutation in that it doesn't effect the production of pigment (like most color mutations do) but instead effects WHERE the pigment manifests on the snake. Leucistics almost always show pigment in their eyes, and randomly throughout the rest of their body. Some leucistic birds, for example, show colored feathers on some parts of their body but pigment-free (white) feathers on the rest.

Knowing what little I do of the ball python trade, I suspect we have MUCH yet to learn about the Palmetto. Leucistic ball pythons show up as combos of some other morphs, and don't seem to follow standard patterns of inheritance that we are used to seeing in corns. I would be willing to bet that the Palmetto morph is going to unlock a whole new lexicon of cornsnake morphs.
 
2012 Palmettos

I talked to Don a few weeks ago and he told me he would also start selling 2012 Normal females het Palmetto for $2000. It would take 4 or 5 years to start hatching Palmettos but it may be a more affordable way to start.

Todd:licklips:
 
He updated his site with a new pic of a hatchling on the front page

cornsnake.net

dc
 
This week I stumbled into a discussion about the palmetto corn on a Dutch forum. Someone mentioned a chocolate chip ratsnake surfacing in 2003 that looked like the palmetto exactly. Not sure which breeder presented it, the poster was not clear about that. It disappeared though, and was never heared of again. The poster whom mentioned the chocolate chip is convinced it was used to cross the mutant gene into corns since they would bring more money to the table than rat snakes, and now here it is. Does anybody on here remember a chocolate chip rat snake? There was an article about it on kingsnakes. com the guy says but it is not there anymore.

The guy also suspects tessera and pied sided to be cross bred from respectively another pantherophis and obsoletus because of the similarity in patterns and the very low chance of a mutation appearing twice relatively shortly following each other in two different (sub) species. To me the fact that many mutations do appear in many (sub) species, like amelanistic, anerythristic, scale less, proves the opposite, so it is way more probable a mutation appears twice in different (sub) species than multiple large breeders brewing hybrids to mislead people into buying new corn morphs, don't you think?
 
If it is the same chocolate chip black rat that I mentioned a few years ago, then they are nothing alike. Doug Moody had a teenage boy bring him a snake that was a black rat with whitish to gray ground color and numerous "chocolate" chip colored spots all over. That snake perished in a heater accident before it was ever reproduced and that was back in the mid to early 90's so that snake has nothing to do with this morph.

Maybe you are referring to another one?

dc
 
Camby said:
If it is the same chocolate chip black rat that I mentioned a few years ago, then they are nothing alike. Doug Moody had a teenage boy bring him a snake that was a black rat with whitish to gray ground color and numerous "chocolate" chip colored spots all over. That snake perished in a heater accident before it was ever reproduced and that was back in the mid to early 90's so that snake has nothing to do with this morph.

Maybe you are referring to another one?

dc
Click to expand...


Yeah, hard to say. The Dutch guy that asked about this that the other poster is referring to claims he saw a photo of it about 8 or so years ago, and has since vanished never to be heard of again. Now I see why he was asking about it seemingly out of nowhere..LOL!

As for the Tessera's,.... All I know is I do not believe for one split second that the Tessera is a product of hybridization whatsoever. Nothing even remotely about it says anything other than authentic P. guttatus..


~Doug
 
So I take it none of you are buying the palmetto. Whats the big waste of time chasing some ratsnake that has nothing to do with the palmetto?
 
I dunno, I was just wondering if anybody over here had heard about the chocolate crisp ratsnake to verify part of what the Dutch guy is telling. If somebody would have been able to tell what happened to the chocolate chip, like it died soon after discovery or it turned out to be a non inheritive trait, I could have told the Dutch guy about that.
 
That ratsnake has no ties to the palmetto. Somebody gets something great and folks wanna make up all these conspiracys.
 
nmoore601 said:
So I take it none of you are buying the palmetto. Whats the big waste of time chasing some ratsnake that has nothing to do with the palmetto?
Click to expand...

To be quite honest, I like to know any and ALL natural histories and morph origins....especially regarding anything colubrid. I also like to look at the examples to take note of any key characteristics as to what their identity might actually be. In my case, it wouldn't necessarily have to pertain to the Palmetto at all. I wanted to know about the Chocolate Chip mutation of the Black Ratsnake regardless because I am into far more different types of snakes than just cornsnakes.

A great example of this would be just last night when a girl emailed me and said she just acquired a so-called "charcoal" Black Ratsnake for $30 bucks. Can't wait to see what she "actually" got since there is no such known morph as a "charcoal" Black Rat.. :)


cheers, ~Doug
 
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