Testing for Stargazing

Bloody baroness


People making an effort to control SG is what's trying to be done. I for one believe if you love corns and have SK in your collection you should have gazer free SK for sale only or atleast be testing your stock.

You are missing my point. People are testing... but there is NO possible way to fully eradicate it.

Out won't happen over night. SK and all morphs containing SK need to be breed to a homo SG preferably a het SG will work. You can see the clutch requirements to achieve certain percentages. It will prevent you from making any profit of you SK projects until you have proven what your SK carry. Example SG or not. All babies can't be sold from the gazer tests as that would only make the problem worse. You can donate them to others on the forum for their testing. If you read this entire thread you get how we are trying to eliminate carriers of SG.

The people that have a positive take on this are the ones who are going to make a difference.

Some folks will just not care and want other people to fix the problem. Kinda like how Obama has done our country.

nmoore601 said:

Out won't happen over night. SK and all morphs containing SK need to be breed to a homo SG preferably a het SG will work. You can see the clutch requirements to achieve certain percentages. It will prevent you from making any profit of you SK projects until you have proven what your SK carry. Example SG or not. All babies can't be sold from the gazer tests as that would only make the problem worse. You can donate them to others on the forum for their testing. If you read this entire thread you get how we are trying to eliminate carriers of SG.

The people that have a positive take on this are the ones who are going to make a difference.

Some folks will just not care and want other people to fix the problem. Kinda like how Obama has done our country.

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You are not getting it.
Gazer won't EVER be eradicated completely, no matter how long it takes.
Testing is nice, but there is no law that mandates it. And even if everyone tested, the gene STILL would not be eradicated.
What part of recessive don't you understand?

I understand recessive. If you breed to a homo to a ph SG what is the outcome? Since you understand recessive you should be able to figure out. That proves if your stock is a carrier. Really?!?

nmoore601 said:

I understand recessive. If you breed to a homo to a ph SG what is the outcome? Since you understand recessive you should be able to figure out. That proves if your stock is a carrier. Really?!?

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Righttttt, since sunkissed has been bred into EVERYTHING, how about all the amels, anerys, charcoals, lavas, lavenders, hypos, etc that carries the gazer gene but not the sunkissed?
No way to police it or put the genie back in the bottle.
Testing is nice, but it won't end it.

nmoore601 said:

The people that have a positive take on this are the ones who are going to make a difference.

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Can I get the secret password, PRETTY PLEASE?

The ONLY way to eradicate this gene is to test every single snake in the world that is of breedable age. Every single person even considering to breed would need a male and a female gazer to test with before they can do anything.
How are you going to see that this happens?

Has anyone here ever put 2 snakes together that contained the same homo&hets and not hit the target? I know I have. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 breedings. Should we test all of our stock for 2-3 seasons?

dave partington said:

Has anyone here ever put 2 snakes together that contained the same homo&hets and not hit the target? I know I have. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 breedings. Should we test all of our stock for 2-3 seasons?

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Excellent point, DP!!

But- those who want gazer-free breeding animals certainly have the means to test for it, and the means to maintain pedigrees, and the ability to offer gazer-free stock to anyone who thinks that is important, or not a moot point.

It reminds me of adenovirus in bearded dragons. No way to stop it now, but you can maintain a colony that is free from it, if you are motivated. At least there is a method to test for _that_. (Electron microscope).

Nanci said:

But- those who want gazer-free breeding animals certainly have the means to test for it, and the means to maintain pedigrees, and the ability to offer gazer-free stock to anyone who thinks that is important, or not a moot point.

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Well said Nanci !!
This is pretty much the reason why I decided to start testing, to be able to offer gazer free Sunkissed combo morphs, nothing else.

Believe me, I understand what alot are saying here in that it will never be eradicated from the cornsnake world and I know it won't, but I will have piece of mind knowing that I can offer gazer free Sunkissed morphs to people that do care about it.........the ones that don't care pretty much get a bouns.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

That's what I'm saying.

Test, test, test. If you are working with SK morphs, breeders should do what they can to ensure a low chance of any gazers getting out.

Then again records can be faked for the sake of touting a gazer free line. There is NOTHING to stop someone from lying.

We have to do our best and trust the ethics of the breeders.

There is no possible way to ever ensure gazer is gone. For every Walter, Tara, Heather and the others, there are 50 more "breeders" not testing. What are you going to do about the guy that grabs two corns because they are pretty, breeds them, then sells those babies?

There are 1,000's possibly 10's of 1,000's of snakes that will keep on being bred and never tested.

Gazer is here to stay and those who care are testing and doing what they can. No amount of crusades, back patting, horn blowing, theory-scaping, finger pointing, name calling, blame casting, preaching, teaching, or chest thumping will clear it out of the lines. Period.

I agree with testing. I'm pretty sure I stated that in the very first line of my original post. I try to only buy stock from breeders that test and I test myself. So I'm already on board.
The thing I am questioning is the thought that we should assume some semblance of control. With the sheer volume of animals produced by non-testing facilities alone, I see it as a daunting task not unlike the finger in the dike scenario. Even so I don't espouse turning a blind eye to the problem.
For those that think the general public really wants SG free snakes, I question this based on my own experience in trying to sell them. Connie and Chuck have been testing for years. They have offered proven gazer free animals. The sad part about that is that very few people appreciate the effort involved in this undertaking and even fewer want to pay for the results. I have had a stunning gazer free male SK on my table at every show since Tinley (at least two shows a month every month). Chuck gave it to me to sell; a way to test the market for such animals. People have purchased other SK animals before the Gazer Free simply on price alone. We are talking a $15-$20 difference; sad really. Sure there should always be a choice and eradication is a noble goal. I just don't see SG going away based on those few hobby breeders doing their due diligence by testing. I hope I'm just being pessimistic.

Terri

Everyone gas some great points. I want offer gazer free. I agree with most of the posts. I'm not the best writer and come off as a prick I'm sorry. I can talk in person or the phone fine. I am glad to have meet new members meaning new to me. I hope to have some future dealings with you all. if anyone was offended I'm sorry. I can't express emotion with words via typing. Hope all of you have an excellent season. Look forward to more interesting topics!

Well I have eggs to collect.

Walter the honey started ovulating, so I let her have a go with a gazer! It's a start.

Well

If Stargazering acts as a recessive gene as I was told it does,breeding a Homo x Het You definetly wont get the results you think or the results that supposed to be.As anyone who has been breeding corns for awhile will/should know. Lets say you are selling stargazer free sunkisseds because you bred a homo stargazer to your sunkissed possable het stargazer and didnt get any stargazers that hatched out,sorry that doesnt mean your Sunkissed is stargazer clean not by a long shot. So please explain how exactly this test works please. And please dont state thats what I heard or read, facts only.

If you look back a few pages you can see how it works . Walter posted a spread from the pretzels. I'm not here to do the math for you, you seem to be knowledgable to figure it out. There is also a corn calculator. If you were not demanding us to show you something you may get what it is you desire.

I guess the main issue I have with test breedings with stargazers is that there are so many het gazer babies produced in these testings that later have to either be euthanized or rehomed (trusting that the new owner will NOT breed them and further propagate the defect to more corns down the road)
While testing is never going to be 100% it is not a bad idea for someone who wants to specialize in sunkissed stuff to test. I will admit if I were wanting to work with sunkissed I'd look for a breeder who tested their stock.

That's right this is for folks who breed SK and SK morphs. The babies can be donated I am in dire need of home SG females to complete testing my males. I have gazer free lines. So any SK offered from me will be from my tested lines. The babies homo and het will be easily taken by breeders who need them for testing, good point. Nice point.

s/g

I believe its a good idea to (try) and test for startgazing. I dont believe the tests are going to be accurate so one can say yes I tested my animals for stargazering, but not they are clean or free from stargazering.