BUF gene

Originally Posted by Russell

probably best to just ignore the hostility and not worry about it. You can enjoy the hobby just fine without knowing all the hostilities involved. Trust me, you'd be happier not knowing.

Maybeso but I admit to curiosity about the color/morph/gene provoking the hostility. I like biology & know something about the genetic control of colors in cats & mice, so I figure I can understand this too.

sorry again I misunderstood. By breeding to a butter when they are het amel won't honestly prove a whole lot if the gene is similar to ultra because well, wouldn't they be het caramel anyway?

Originally Posted by wstphal

Maybeso but I admit to curiosity about the color/morph/gene provoking the hostility. I like biology & know something about the genetic control of colors in cats & mice, so I figure I can understand this too.

the hostility comes from waaay back. And I see even something I did and even admitted my mistake about was still thrown in my face six years after it happened like it's legitimate to the discussion at hand. Some people in this thread were merely out for blood for reasons OTHER than this discussion at hand. It's a long drawn out mess. Anyhow, back to your regular sheduled program...

Originally Posted by Drizzt80

From what I've seen discussed, and I'm by no means a genetic """expert""", the gene has never been conclusively tested to rule out an effect from Caramel. There's plenty of subjective evidence that slagenbroad shared, but where's the buf vs Caramel conclusive pairing?? Haven't seen it.

Where's the buf animal proven NOT het Caramel crossed with a pure Normal and buf recovered?? That's """confirmed""".

D80

Originally Posted by Drizzt80

I don't know the answer to that Nanci. What I do know is that slangenbroad was asked several times, from the beginning, to do conclusive tests to rule out Caramel. Nothing he ever presented showed that. That's not necessarily confirmed in my book.

buf may very well be a new gene, I've never necessarily said it wasn't, but what I have asked to see is removal of the Caramel influence? Again, that hasn't happened that's ever been publicly shared and considering the time frame from the last time he shared information, I doubt it's been done so far.

It is what it is.
D80

Originally Posted by Drizzt80

I'll decline the opportunity to answer that question as I'm sure I'll be accused of holding some sort of grudge, or chip on my shoulder, regarding mr. pritzel.

The facts regarding the buf gene, that I have read, include no evidence that excludes the Caramel gene. And I have given a more than honest effort in trying to wrap my head around 'buf'.

D80

Originally Posted by Drizzt80

And that particular orange female is proven NOT het Caramel? No, it's not. The buf animals he represents are proven NOT het Caramel? No, they're not. You should know as well as anyone that one breeding with 9 eggs is not any kind of statistical confirmation.

What's so difficult about doing a breeding to Caramel to rule it out? What's so horrible about asking for that breeding? Why is it such a problem for that breeding to be done? . . . after 5 years of asking . . . In scientific circles it's called peer review.

I guess if off-colors that show up statistically in a single clutch or two is a now considered a gene, then I have about 5 different new genes showing up in my collection. And I don't need to prove a single one of them to you, I can just start coming up with new names to describe them. Sounds good.

D80

PS. FYI, your 'smoking gun' chart was also posted here.

ALL of my responses, BEFORE you showed up with . . .

Originally Posted by Russell

The links were given in posts above. And yet people still want to sit around and make it a bashing party. Have fun. It's your site.

Show me bashing until you showed up. Show me pointing a finger at your idol. Show me. I VERY specifically didn't answer the question about charles because I knew you would be the first in line with fire and brimstone. As usual, you bring your baggage here as you see fit once every few months to defend your perceived attacks on your protoge'. Fine, but don't put words in my mouth.

I have followed this from the beginning. I have questioned. I have poked and prodded. I have privately pm'ed slangenbroad. I have attempted to wrap my head around things. The one, logical, common sense pairing that was suggested 5 years ago was to breed a buf to a homo Caramel animal. It has NOT been done by slangenbroad and he made it very clear he had no intention of doing it. At this point, just because charles prints it in his book doesn't make it so. I'm not calling charles a liar. I'm pointing out that every buf discussion that has been had at this site and others does not include a conclusive breeding between a buf and homo caramel animal in order to rule out that the buf is het (or even homo) caramel. Period.

D80

Just answered myself. I was not fully aware the ultra gene could stand alone as a fully single gene. I was under the impression it needed amel to kind of carry it and express it. Ack not sure that made sense.

But still, I would think the best way to prove it out would be to breed to themselves. Two buf from the caramel lines. They would be het caramel, somewhere amel came into play, by breeding them together should one not them get caramel, buf and orange? That is IF the gene is similar to Ultra? Oh and possibly butters because of that odball amel, but that would leave the door open for a buf butter??? What do we call that, cream? Not trying to be funny, honest.

Does anyone have a pic of a buf? Or are they just in Europe? I hear a lot about that they are Carmel looking in appearance but Carmel has so many tones of yellow and browns...

Originally Posted by carnivorouszoo

sorry again I misunderstood. By breeding to a butter when they are het amel won't honestly prove a whole lot if the gene is similar to ultra because well, wouldn't they be het caramel anyway?

If the gene works like the Ultra gene does, you would see animals that are half way between Caramel and Buff. The amel gene would just make some butters and amels in the mix IF Buf were het caramel.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Does anyone have a pic of a buf? Or are they just in Europe? I hear a lot about that they are Carmel looking in appearance but Carmel has so many tones of yellow and browns...

Nevermind . . . here: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sea...archid=1651436

D80

Originally Posted by Drizzt80

ALL of my responses, BEFORE you showed up with . . .


Show me bashing until you showed up. Show me pointing a finger at your idol. Show me. I VERY specifically didn't answer the question about charles because I knew you would be the first in line with fire and brimstone. As usual, you bring your baggage here as you see fit once every few months to defend your perceived attacks on your protoge'. Fine, but don't put words in my mouth.

I have followed this from the beginning. I have questioned. I have poked and prodded. I have privately pm'ed slangenbroad. I have attempted to wrap my head around things. The one, logical, common sense pairing that was suggested 5 years ago was to breed a buf to a homo Caramel animal. It has NOT been done by slangenbroad and he made it very clear he had no intention of doing it. At this point, just because charles prints it in his book doesn't make it so. I'm not calling charles a liar. I'm pointing out that every buf discussion that has been had at this site and others does not include a conclusive breeding between a buf and homo caramel animal in order to rule out that the buf is het (or even homo) caramel. Period.

D80

you just don't know when to shut up do you? It was YOU who brought up something that happened over six years ago on a totally different forum! Grow up Brent! you can't see the forest for the trees! Don't act like you didn't say anything nasty in your replies to this thread, and don't even try to pretend your all innocent! Knock it off!

Alright I am going to go now but let me just say, let he who is without wrong cast the first stone. Jiminey, can't get this thread to stay away from those two bickering at each other. Sigh.