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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Possible Golden Breedings
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:00 PM   #1
scmartin27
Possible Golden Breedings

I wasn't exactly sure if I should be posting this here, or in the "Breeding" section of the forums... This is partially to do with keeping track of who I've bred to whom (snake-wise, obviously), but also partially to let everyone know where things are with the Golden project.

As things stand now, I have:
2 male het Goldens, one is sterile.
4 male possible het goldens who are also (unfortunately) het caramel, possibly het lava motley. 2 of these boys have been proven het motley this season
7 (i think?) female possible het goldens who are siblings of the above possible het males - so they're also het caramel, ph lava motley (again, 2 females were proven het motley this season).

2 clutches are hatched/hatching at the moment.
Clutch between Divinity x Fritter appears to not have hit the mark.
Clutch between Empanada x Gelato might have... but with just a few noses poking out, it's hard to say just yet (though it's easy enough to see that some are motley).
I have a few other pairs together (Churro x Ambrosia appear to have bred, but can't say for sure). Pretty much I currently have a male in with each female right now, except one girl who hasn't made it to weight yet (she's been a picky feeder).
Marshall, the het male, Bred to Baklava earlier this season, but only one possibly good egg came from that and it doesn't appear that it will make it.
I will keep everyone updated as the Golden project continues, and post photos at a later time.
To my knowledge Don S. has a het golden female, but she may be too old to breed. And Joe Pierce's adult male golden passed away - leaving him with a visual female and a het female (no babies from his 2018 breedings made it, at least that's what he indicated in his last email).
The race is on...
 
Old 07-19-2019, 06:56 AM   #2
scmartin27
Births & Deaths

When i first obtained the 2 adult Het golden males from Pierce they both had Respiratory infections. The sterile male was worse. despite efforts (antibiotics, lots of time at the vet, etc) he passed away last week due to complications from the RI - that had persisted long before coming to me. Though he was thought to be sterile, I had hope he would breed. But they're both older, and a long-term illness, along with lung scarring, just overtook him.

BETTER news - all babies from the 2 clutches from 2 ph golden x ph golden pairs have hatched. Clutch #59 (the first clutch) had none that I would suspect were Golden. A few Caramels and a ton of classics - with some motleys thrown in.

EVEN better news - Clutch #61 DID have 3 that were "possible" golden. One unfortunately passed away shortly after hatching due to "Hard belly" (the yolk hardens when absorbed instead of being used as nutrients) - we just caught it too late to remove it. But 2 still remain. One I am 100% sure is at least Caramel, the other may not be. I'm NOT 100% sure either ARE golden, but they certainly look different than the regular caramels from the clutch. I'll attach photos.

We have not gotten any eggs from the other pairs we had together. So it looks like the season is probably over. This gives me hope, though - the female who produced the possible goldens will be the first to be introduced to the known het golden male next season.

Feel free to let me know your thoughts on any of this - especially the photos. I intend to get more photos as they grow, and I plan to keep a known Caramel for reference.

Photos:
1) Poss Golden who passed away
2) Poss Golden who is still alive
3) Poss Caramel Golden (at least caramel) - still alive
4) Top = caramel/poss golden caramel, Bottom = poss golden who passed away - photo taken just after hatching
5) current photo of poss golden
 
Old 07-19-2019, 07:02 AM   #3
scmartin27
More photos

Pics:
1) Caramel on Left - Poss golden on right
2) Classic's head on top right of pic, caramel's head in middle of pic, poss golden's head on bottom right of pic
3) classic on right, caramel in center, poss golden on left
4) Classic on top right, poss golden in center, caramel's head on top left of pic
5) Caramel on top, poss golden on bottom (in shed)
 
Old 07-26-2019, 12:15 AM   #4
pitzMike
Thank you for this update. One thing ive noticed about the supposed Goldens is the head pattern. It peculiar and almost in between a normal head pattern and that of Masque's (correct me if im wrong). Can you show the parents?
 
Old 07-30-2019, 02:06 PM   #5
scmartin27
Parent pics

Other than the obvious yellow tones to the parents, the patterns are not at all strange. I think the known caramel & motley hets are peeking through, but they don't have odd patterns.
I agree, all the "possible" goldens have very strange patterns, while none of the other offspring do.
First 2 pics of dad & mom - other pics of a few of the siblings. A Caramel Motley, a Motley, and a Classic. A couple of the classics (that I apparently don't have photos of yet) do have a bit of a split head pattern... but none are quite like that.
 
Old 08-05-2019, 12:28 PM   #6
scmartin27
Post 2nd shed photos

Snagged some photos of the 2 possible golden kids yesterday now that they have both had their 2nd sheds (didn't think to throw a known caramel in the mix for comparison, oops). But they're both gaining a lot of yellow... I'm unsure if they're anything other than caramel at this point. Good thing I have a lot of caramel based females in my collection to test them to in a few years.
It seems to me that we don't have any photos of Goldens from the age of a couple weeks old to a couple years old... All photos of goldens I've seen were right after hatching / right after the first shed, then adults... but no photos of the in-between ages. these guys didnt really start developing yellows until after shed #2.
If anyone has/finds any photos of a known golden between the age of 1mo-1yr please post it in here for reference!
 
Old 08-05-2019, 12:39 PM   #7
scmartin27
Just adding...

There's zero sign of the masque gene in this line. Even the "possible" goldens with their weird head patterns don't have split belly checkers or any other sign of masque. However, I also don't see it being a part of the Golden gene or anything; the original Golden, her kids, and her grandkids did not have this odd head pattern. I'm not sure if it is from the other side of the line (these kids' caramel het lava motley grandparent) or if it's just an odd coincidence. I do not think it's the masque gene, though. Especially since neither parent shows it either.
 
Old 08-08-2019, 10:32 AM   #8
scmartin27
Joe Pierce's Photo

This photo is one I found of (I think) Yearlings... these are Golden, not Caramel. So... perhaps one of my guys is golden as well? Just putting this in here for record's sake
Photo credit: Joe Pierce
 

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