Observed Use of High Temp Areas

Originally Posted by captainjack0000

Just because one species does it is not a good argument for its commonality among any others.

I have heard of that program. My aunt told me the same thing, so it must bere in the US.

It is neat, and I won't argue with them about the African species.



So, I now have an example of a snake using high temps, but not for any length of time. 40C still only 104F...so anything 105F+ may not be used. So perhaps having a high basking temp wouldn't be a bad thing provided it wasn't any higher than 105F and the snake had a means to escape.

I'm still not convinced about corns though and more temperate species of the southeast United States.

Sorry this is where I leave this .....
You stated snake..... ROCK PYTHON is a snake
YOU mentioned 100+ 40 degrees is above 100 so I answered your question as part of a natural scenario snakes do go above 100 when required..

You cant keep moving the bar to suit an argument..!

Great program though

I agree with you in that you provided an example where a snake would voluntarily subject itself to temperatures higher than 100F.

The question was an outgrowth of a discussion about what temperatures a corn snake would exploit for thermoregulation. I argued that a corn snake should never need a basking temp of 110F (this was the original number given on the other thread) because I couldn't image a corn snake ever using that in the wild. The idea being that captive care should mimic natural conditions.

I have done some digging, and found an article named Preliminary Study of the Thermal Requirements of Desert Reptiles. And while it did not give the surface temperature of basking animals, it did provide the voluntary maximum temperature, and the critical temperature (at which point the animal died). (Horrible experiment I know). For example, for the Common Chuckwalla had a maximum voluntary temperature of 42C, and the lethal temperature was around 50C.

For the sidewinder, their highest tolerance was 41.8C and lethal temperatures at 43-44C.

From the summary (and there is more written than I'm posting here)

The reptiles under observation were voluntarily active
only between the temperature extremes of 16° and 42° C. (cloacal
temperatures).

Contrary to previous reports, nocturnal reptiles not only
tolerate but prefer temperatures somewhat lower than those of
diurnal reptiles. Provisionally the difference between mean critical
thermal levels for diurnal arid nocturnal reptiles may be said
to approximate 6° or 7° C.

One of the notable facts is the close approximation of the
maximum temperatures tolerated voluntarily and the critical
maximum which immobilizes the animals. A difference of somewhat
less than 6° C. between these levels is indicative of the temperature hazards under which some of these animals would exist,
were it not for concomitant adaptations, particularly in habits.
The utter impossibility of prolonged activity in the full summer
sunshine of the desert is clearly indicated by the black-bulb temperature
of 87° C. observed as early as May.

A notable characteristic of desert reptiles is the rapidity
with which these animals absorb heat. Changes are so rapid as
to exceed those of the thermometer in the case of small lizards
(Uta stansburiana). The rapid changes in reptilian temperatures
seem to be due primarily to: (1) their lack of effective surface
insulation; (2) their lack of hypodermal adipose tissue; (3) their
pigmentation, particularly the melanin; and (4) in the smaller
species, to the relatively small volume in proportion to the large
heat-conducting surface.

Thermotaxis through behavior is one of the outstanding
characteristics of desert reptiles. Body temperatures within
the normal activity range are attained principally (1) by selecting
positions in or on soil, or rock, where heat through direct
conduction can be absorbed, or (2) by basking, with all or only
part of the body exposed, to sources of solar heat. Conversely
temperatures above the critical maximum are avoided (1) by
retreating to cooler depths, in the ground (by burrowing or in
preempted burrows), in rock crevices, or beneath insulating
material, (2) or by respiratory cooling under extreme conditions.

So I stand corrected yet again. Desert species at least can tolerate temperatures upward of 105F or 106F.

I'm going to keep hunting for something similar regarding the more temperate species. I mean if desert species maxes out at say 42C (107.6F) then I would guess our scaled friends from the higher latitudes would prefer cooler temperatures.

Even though I was wrong...I can't but help think of all that I have learned in the process. Being wrong has proven to be most valuable.

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Matter of fact, one of the commonly known methods of a "cold blooded" animal to help cure itself of pathogens

In the wild, I believe this is the main reason for basking. We have done some research in mouth flora between captive raised corn snakes and wild caught corn snakes. (My wife is a biologist)The wild caught snakes show less mouth bacteria than captive raised snakes. After reading up on "crypto" and other snake aliments, I believe ("theory only") that UV basking can actually help wild snakes get rid of, or at least help with certain aliments...... as well as the other obvious reasons, digestion, and thermoregulating, incubation etc.....

As far as the temps they endure, or need to endure...Beats me.

I've been busy in class most of the day, but I did find an interesting article that shows that corn snakes are much more interested in regulation of their head instead of the rest of the body. The argument is that higher head temperatures is related to proper central nervous system function.

The preferred regional body temperature ranged from 25C(77F) to 30C(86F). The snakes were in enclosures that ranged from 25C to 35C. This study shows that they don't prefer temps into the 100F+ range.

They also found body temperature increased during digestion.

I've attached the article as a pdf for those who are interested.

What is a correct way to measure a snakes body temp?

I found one article that found the lethal temperature of several lizard species by slow cooking them and observing at what temperature they die.

Then I found this one. Selected thermal temperatures for black racer was 28C-35C.

For 'rat snake' (Elaphe obsoleta) "The highest temperature taken was of a snake found under a piece of scrap metal exposed to the sun." It was 38C (100.4F). The second highest was 33.5C.


There was one gopher snake that was observed on soil that had a temperature of 40C (104F), but the second hottest soil/road temperature was 36.2C and the snake was found on that road. The body temperatures of the snakes were 29.6C and 34.6C respectively.

I feel like I have found my answer.

What is a correct way to measure a snakes body temp?

The short answer is that I have no idea.

The methods described in the papers used a thermometers inserted into the cloaca, or the one for corn snakes used PIT tags. PIT = Passive integrated transponders. They literally surgically implanted the thermometer into the body cavity of the snake.

From this study, they talk a bit about proper temp recording.

Air temperatures listed are those of the microclimate where the animal was obtained, usually taken 1 inch above the surface of the substrate; bulb shaded. Soil and water temperatures were taken at a depth of 1 inch unless otherwise noted. Body temperatures were usually recorded from the cloaca, although turtle body temperatures were often taken deep in the groin. Heat conduction from the hand or thermometer was minimized by holding the reptile by the ex- tremities and allowing the thermometer to come to rest prior to in- sertion. As noted by others (Mullally, 1952; Fitch, 1956), caution must be taken to avoid heat conduction. With practice and with a few simple tests, errors can be easily avoided. Body temperatures taken on reptiles immediately after they are stunned or shot do not seem to differ from normal (Bogert, 1949b; Soule, 1963). Thermal gradient studies in the laboratory were often used to check field data.

I can't really add to the tempreture debate but I just wanted to say that Africa is a BBC documentary narrated by David Attenborough. If you can watch it then I highly recommend it or any of his series. You can find one from about ten years ago on youtube which is just about snakes. Amazing documentary maker that doesn't go down the Austen Stevens route of trying to make everything look dangerous.

Just watched the Africa doc in the U.S. recently. It's a great three part series, but in the U.S. it is narrated by Forest Whittaker, not David Attenborough. The part about the rock python was very interesting...