Legitimate Reason Wanted

I'm not participating in the poll, but here is how I feed. I raise my own rats and mice. So I rarely ever feed frozen thawed. Except for times when for whatever reason I have more mouths to feed than I have rodents. So I feed freshly stunned rodents and I make sure the snake gets a good death grip on the rodent before I walk away. I have had snakes injured in the past. Like Susan said it is always a risk. The last one I had injured was a Red Tail green rat that grabbed the mouse from the rear and before she could subdue the mouse properly she was bitten in the mouth, which later becaime infected and turned into mouth rot. I was able to cure her of mouthrot but she never really fed well after the whole ordeal and she evenyually died. As a kid I threw a small mouse mouse in a tank with a small boa constrictor and I went off to ride my bike. When I got home the mouse was picking the flesh off my dead snakes head. True story!

If I could edit the poll to include stunned I would. I was tired when I did it and accidentally left it out. You do bring up good points for not feeding live, especially the case of your boa. And there have been times where we will stun a mouse and then feed it. I think it just boils down to each individual snake and its owners preferences. I also think this is one topic we are never all going to completely agree on. But I wanted a constructive conversation on the topic and who knows, maybe in the future this will help someone new to the forums. I know I did a lot of searching of old threads when I first joined when I had questions.

It is still not my problem that you made a [F]TROLL[/font] post.

Love the Fatman

How did I make it a troll post? I am asking for peoples opinions on the matter and own experiences. You think im a troll? Fine that is your opinion. But feeling the need to call me one twice now really is uncalled for when others are making constructive posts and arguments on the matter at hand.

Originally Posted by Outcast

Before I knew that she would take F/T I fed her a live mouse and she constricted perfectly. I just feed F/T because I would rather not hear a mouses death squeals.

Also, even if you supervise your snake eating live it can still be injured, maybe not as badly, but still, injury may occur. A mouses bite is faster than a humans reaction time.

Absolutely!!! My husband insisted that I feed my snakes live. So just to get him to shut up I did a few times. And one of my snakes who strikes perfect every single time didn't just once and the mouse bit him. So then I was left with an injured snake that I had to worry about and take care of. Even supervised it happens so fast that there is not much you can do if something does go wrong. Luckily, my husband realized you don't mess with me and my snakes.

Originally Posted by Stormy

Cons of F/T[list][*]Can take up a lot of freezer space.

If you have so many snakes that FT takes up a significant part of your freezer (I have 65, and virtually never have a shortage of freezer space) then you have so many snakes that buying live would cause even more hardship! Can you imagine going out and buying 50 live mice weekly? If you have say, ten snakes, it's simple to fit all the FT you need in a Tupperware in the freezer. Not fair to compare storing hundreds of mice to picking up a few live weekly...

Originally Posted by Nanci

If you have so many snakes that FT takes up a significant part of your freezer (I have 65, and virtually never have a shortage of freezer space) then you have so many snakes that buying live would cause even more hardship! Can you imagine going out and buying 50 live mice weekly? If you have say, ten snakes, it's simple to fit all the FT you need in a Tupperware in the freezer. Not fair to compare storing hundreds of mice to picking up a few live weekly...

We rent, thus the fridge/freezer is the landlords. Thus it is a small fridge. Right now we have snakes that feed on pretty much all sizes.

Originally Posted by Stormy

@Lenny: Where I live there are two choices for feeders locally. Petsmart which charges an arm and a leg. Or a badly run local store. This store is disgusting, it should be shut down.

Here would be a reason to feed f/t...no access to local live feeders. Some people, such as yourself, don't drive or live out in the country where it isn't feasible to drive to a pet store. I know there are some people here that are 45 minutes to an hour away (if not more) from their closest 'big' town where there may or may not be a pet store that supplies live.

Not always. There was even just recently a post on one of the threads here where they contacted a supplier with their concerns and they never got an answer. I also have a friend who had this same issue. Her and a few others spent a couple hundred on a mouse order for their ferrets only to have them show up with bedding and feces mixed into the frozen mice.

No matter what supplier you buy from, there is always going to be small amounts of bedding and feces. It doesn't hurt the quality of the mice, except potentially in large quantities or if the feces gives some indication that the mice were ill at the time of freezing (diarrhea or odd color). Rodent suppliers breed thousands and thousands of mice, it isn't possible to insure that each and every bag that gets shipped out is poo and bedding free. I'd still rather deal with a little typical mouse/rat dirt than spend $1.29-$6.99 (pinky mouse-large rat prices, both live and frozen, at my local pet store). I would say that as long as the rodents themselves aren't dirty (urine stained fur, diarrhea stained bottoms, etc.) then the supplier is doing a good job. Also, a reputable supplier will do anything in their power to make things right if something happens with a shipment (incorrect amounts, not frozen on arrival, dirty, etc.). I've heard plenty of stories about The Mouse Factory and RodentPro, among others, that have made their mistakes right in a very timely manner.

@GSDlover
We do breed our own and like I posted above, even with the cost of bedding and food each month (runs us about 20$), it is cheaper because of the price gouging that goes on in our area.

I bred mice and rats for some time, mostly as pets, but used some of the mouse pinks as feeders. Even with a feed bill around $20 (and I made my own rodent mix), bedding bill around $20, and a few extra bucks here and there for 'treats', vitamins, and the occasional toy (yep, enrichment of their environment), that's still more than what I pay for frozen feeders in bulk for my entire collection in a month. My food bill is less than $500 for a year (and that's without shipping, as I pick up my orders at a reptile show). In addition, I wasn't even breeding anywhere close to what I would have needed to feed all my kiddos, so if I was, I'm sure my food/bedding bill would have been at least double. And then there's the time it takes to clean, cull, and otherwise take care of the rodent collection. I don't have the kind of time (or space for that matter) to take care of a collection that would be capable of feeding my snakes.

Pros for F/T:
As for the stink, I was battling that for awhile, we would clean, a few days later it would stink. We found a way around that and we still clean just as often as before, but now the stink is not noticeable unless you go right up to the bin in the rack and take a good sniff.

Just curious, how did you take care of the smell? I've been thinking about getting back into rats (just as pets), but I live in a small space and the smell just about the only thing preventing me from getting a few. I'm always interested in hearing smell reducing tricks and tips

@Nanci I think this boils down to the individual snake. Each snake has their own personalities and quirks.

It is still anthropomorphism no matter how you look at it. And as for the 'enrichment' in zoos that Kali mentioned, the enrichment is being used for birds and mammals, animals that are known to need the enrichment due to 'higher brain function' (not exactly what I'm trying to say, but I think you know what I mean). As far as I know, and I could be wrong as I haven't been to a zoo in years, they aren't providing the tarantulas, roaches, snakes, fish, etc. with toys and such.

@strasevol
Good point. But then what do hunters do that go out hunting deer, turkey, boar etc every hunting season?

Providing food for themselves and their families. For most (at least the hunters I know) it isn't so much about the 'joy' of killing the animal, it is about spending time outside and putting food on the table. Also, they aren't chasing their prey on food, taking it down with their bare hands, and eating it raw in the woods.

@Outcast A chest freezer is another valid point. Not everyone has access to one so freezer space is at a premium (especially when feeding people with the appetites of teenaged boys).

Even if I go out and buy a chest freezer (which I have been contemplating, but that brings up my lack of space again...plus I use the chest freezer at my parents' house to store the majority of my rodents and keep a small supply in my house, going over to their house to get more when I run low), they are rather inexpensive these days and would pretty much pay for itself in a few years by holding my bulk frozen feeders.

I think I covered everything I was thinking about. If not, I'll be back.

Just curious, how did you take care of the smell? I've been thinking about getting back into rats (just as pets), but I live in a small space and the smell just about the only thing preventing me from getting a few. I'm always interested in hearing smell reducing tricks and tips

We are using Premium Horse Bedding on the bottom of the bins with their normal wood shavings on the top. Some people argue the corn cob bedding attracts mold but we have not had any issues with it. And if it did attract mold it wouldnt be used on horses which are very sensitive to mold.

[quote=Stormy;1214608] @Lenny: Where I live there are two choices for feeders locally. Petsmart which charges an arm and a leg. Or a badly run local store. This store is disgusting, it should be shut down. But it cant be because they have relatives that are police that handle every complaint for them. She also does not have a set price on mice, we could go in there two separate times, get the same size mouse, and get charged two very different prices. We do have one local supplier of f/t and live but he is several hours away and I cannot drive (eye sight problems) and my bf works 50-60 hours a week so it is not easy to get to him. [quote]

When I had just too snake I found out it was cheaper to buy f/t than live.


[quote=Stormy;1214608]
Not always. There was even just recently a post on one of the threads here where they contacted a supplier with their concerns and they never got an answer. I also have a friend who had this same issue. Her and a few others spent a couple hundred on a mouse order for their ferrets only to have them show up with bedding and feces mixed into the frozen mice. [quote]

This is just like when you buy live at a bad source..change sources

[quote=Stormy;1214608]
I am not asking people to agree with me. I am not saying they have to agree with me. I am just asking for a nice discussion and peoples opinions on the matter. [quote]

In my view feeding f/t has way more "pros" to it than your list of "pros" for live. Thats my opinion tho.