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Miscellaneous Corn Snake Discussions This is a "none of the above" forum. All posts should still be related to cornsnakes in one form or another, but some slight off topic posting is fine.

Info for would be corn breeders
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:21 PM   #1
ghosthousecorns
Info for would be corn breeders

It seems I see a lot of threads by people who get into corns and want to breed them right away. What is is about this hobby that pulls us in, that makes us all want to be the next big name with the coolest new morph?

Reading the threads on here and seeing all the pretty pictures, it looks so easy. Just buy a bunch of snakes and put them together, come up with a neat name for your business, and shazzam right?

I've seen a lot of seasoned breeders step in and try to talk to the enthusiastic new would-be breeders and gently try to discourage them (or in some cases not so gently) but it sometimes seems to have the opposite effect - the newbie becomes more than ever determined to be a Corn Snake Breeder.

I feel strongly that nobody should be told not to breed corns just because they are new to the game, but more and more I feel like those of us who have been around have a duty to tell them what to really expect if they breed their corns. I just wanted to take a minute to point out a few of the cons of breeding - and I would welcome input from other (seasoned) breeders.

1- Unless you have morphs that are somewhat sought after, you will probably not be able to sell most common morphs except at prices that are hardly worth the time and effort it takes to breed, incubate, hatch, get them established, etc. You will likely not make much if any money, but you will have the responsibility to feed and house those babies if nobody buys them.

2- It takes a really long time and a lot of effort to get established as a breeder, and many people hesitate to buy snakes from someone they haven't heard of. If you don't have an outlet in mind to sell your babies it is something to think about before you breed!

3.- It takes a great deal out of a female corn to produce eggs, She needs to be in optimal shape, not too overweight or she may not have the muscle tone and not too thin or she may not recover from the ordeal. Even a female of optimal size and condition can have trouble, become eggbound, and die. If you want to breed take a good look at the snake you have in mind - is she in shape enought to be a mom?

4.- The male can also be at risk, while more uncommon, cases where a male injures a hemipene during breeding do occur.

5.- There is no end to the number of heartbreaking things that can go wrong with the babies. Eggs that just never hatch. Kinked, deformed babies that need to be put down. Seemingly perfect babies that just won't eat and starve themselves to death. Oh and be prepared to spend many hours of your life getting them to eat...

6.- If you do everything right and have some nice babies to sell be prepared to see a really ugly side of people as they try to get what they want (your snakes) and pay as little as possible. They might ask you to hold the snake and change their mind because it was cheaper from someone else. They might offer a ridiculously low amount. They will ask you a million questions, want you to go out of your way to take pics for them, then decide they don't want the snake after all. Customer service can be not that much fun.
 
Old 02-15-2011, 09:00 PM   #2
airenlow
Very good points, Jen!

Last year was my first time breeding corns. I read every book and absorbed every piece of info from this forum, but I still wasn't prepared for what happened. I attempted 2 pairings. The first one slugged out...both snakes were virgins, so that was no big surprise. The second pairing resulted in the female becoming egg bound, even though she was an appropriate weight and muscle tone. I ended up aspirating the stuck egg after a month of waiting and massaging. She double clutched, on her own, and needed to have the last egg of that batch massaged out also. Incubation went pretty smooth...17 of 18 eggs went full term. Then, only half the hatchlings ate for me. The majority of the non-feeders were given away or wholesaled. I kept back a cool Anery from the clutch who needed to be force fed mouse tails until she finally ate, 4 months later.

My first time breeding was very stressful, but wasn't enough to scare me away. Fingers crossed for better luck this year!

My Anery keeper...
 
Old 02-15-2011, 09:06 PM   #3
ghosthousecorns
I hope you have much better luck this year!
I am glad that the anery ate finally. I forgot to mention as something that can go wrong how clutches can end up all slugs. So many things can go wrong, the fact you rode the bad times out and still want to keep trying tells me that you are breeding for the right reasons!
 
Old 02-15-2011, 09:54 PM   #4
Emanon
Good points! there have been many many things that have amazed me with selling and buying cornsnakes. I have had fun, stressed WAY out, run ragged many times, been CORNFUSED on many occasions, and made some great friends.

My word to people who want to make money at it... caution.
 
Old 02-15-2011, 10:02 PM   #5
Outcast
I had hoped that I could breed Bandit and Gypsy this spring, but things happened and I am not going to be breeding this year. I will try for it again next year, but that is only if and when I get my rack systems built. I want one for hatchlings and one for adults. I hope things work out for next year... but hey, I have all summer to see where I want to go with my breeding's.
 
Old 02-15-2011, 10:31 PM   #6
whippet
We have chosen not to breed for many of these reasons. Thanks for posting this.
Just because one CAN breed cornsnakes (or anything for that matter) does not mean one SHOULD do it.

Another point I would make is that we as reptiles keepers need to breed to Improve the breed...not just produce babies.
If a snake is a bad feeder...missing an eye...kinked...has a bad temperment...it just plain should NOT be bred. We need to pick the BEST examples of each snake and breed them.
No one really needs to breed an average testy normal to another normal. The world gets enough normals as biproducts of specialised clutches.
It is high time we start doing good things for the corn community. I commend everyone of you who already do so...and hope the newbies listen!
 
Old 02-15-2011, 10:50 PM   #7
Tavia
Very well put! I have to say that on the whole, the people of this forum generally do a better job of convincing people to only breed for the right reasons. The only big gripe I have about the crestie forum I frequent is the way they often handle the breeding crazed new ones. There is definitely a strong desire to breed an animal that you are passionate about and for some people seeing the amount of money some of these animals can fetch and the fact that they are very easy to get to breed is a big draw too. They don't think about what can go wrong or the associated costs that aren't measured in money and want to jump right in.
However, the crestie forum really likes to use the argument that the times are hard, the prices are falling, they (the other breeders) are having a hard time moving their stock and the new one shouldn't contribute to the problem and make it even harder on the people already breeding, even though those people intend to continue with their own breeding. Even though they often bring out a lot of valid points, the above attitude is very annoying and makes people dig in their heels and do it anyway.
It is very nice to almost never see that attitude on this forum.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 03:46 AM   #8
bitsy
This is a fantastic thread.

It's easy to underestimate the amount of time and energy you need to look after even a couple of clutches of Corn hatchlings. Not to mention the worry and stress. And these days, at the end of the process, to possibly be left with the expense of housing and feeding a dozen or more hatchlings that nobody wants.

After a few years of breeding I stopped last year and to be honest, it was a huge relief. I could do a full day's (physical) work then come home and relax. I didn't have to come in and then immediately spend an hour or two sorting out the new arrivals, feeding (or attempting to feed...) older babies, checking eggs and coddling sometimes fragile "new moms".

It really isn't as easy as it might seem, for either the Corn or human elements of the process! It's definitely worth going in with your eyes (and wallet) open.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 05:19 AM   #9
Nanci
You know, I just advised someone of nearly all those points a few days ago, and got blown off. People just want to do what they want to do.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 06:37 AM   #10
chris68
With all the different "plans" on feeding, opinions on different methods of keeping them. etc etc It seems like folks are taking the fun out of keeping corns...They are way too worried about exact birth dates, weights, having to feed on "X" day because thats what the "plan" says...This is a hobby for 99% of us, and it is supposed to be a fun hobby...Maximizing feed schedules to "stay on course" doesn't sound like much fun...

Breeding corns is time consuming and stressful as well as exciting and rewarding...I had just 4 clutches planned; I have to reevaluate that due to time constraints...and thats with just 4, imagine the time involved with 10...or more...

Everyone seems to be "in a rush" when they need to just slow their roll and enjoy the hobby :*)
 

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