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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Genetics Tutorial
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Old 10-15-2006, 02:09 PM   #11
gwb8568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan
The father can give either an X or a Y...he is "heterozygous" or "het" Y.
would the offspring not be "het" Y and he just be listed as XY ?

Quote:
dd - says to create the diffuse pattern - produces diffuse/bloodred
i thought that bloodred was a color apperance/morph, not a pattern type ?

Quote:
If I were to breed that hypolavender motley to a diffuse opal (aa dd ll), I would show the combined genes for the pair:
hypolavender motley - AA hh DD ll mm
diffuse opal - aa HH dd ll MM
o.k........the last few paragraphs got me confused but also thinking real hard. one question. would there not be a capital "L" in any of that somewhere since it would have had to be dominant?

my turn to break........and then return to post #2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan
This is the fun part! Well...at least for me it is.
Of course, when each gene in each parent is homozygous, it's easy to do the square. The REAL fun begins when you have heterozygous gene pairs! That will be the next lesson...need more coffee!
o.k...........the fun ended for me in this "Punnett Square" titled post. i don't need any coffee, just a nice hard wall. will start over maybe after some of the football games but before the steelers and see if the break helped. i can't believe that some of the 14-16 year old kids on here actually "get" this and a grown man is dwarfed by it.
 
Old 10-15-2006, 02:56 PM   #12
Susan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssthisto
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd been under the impression that this is not always the case. We may someday discover a corn snake 'mutant' gene that is dominant or codominant to 'wild type' (and 'bloodred/diffuse' may actually already qualify if you get visual hets).

I know that, in mice, there's a mutant gene producing tan bellies that is visible even on wild-type Agouti.

Granted, the majority of known morphs are simple Mendelian recessives.
No, you're not wrong. I'm simply doing a general over-view on cornsnake genetics and so far, 97% of the current morphs are simple recessive. I'm leaving out that 3% as zigzag/aztec may be co-dominant and a few other morphs (bloodred and cubed, for example) are still not fully understood.
 
Old 10-15-2006, 03:23 PM   #13
Susan
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwb8568
would the offspring not be "het" Y and he just be listed as XY ?
For this example only...X het Y is the same thing as XY, just written differently. He can give to his offspring either an X or a Y. The woman can only give an X. His offspring can be either XX (a girl) or XY (a boy).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwb8568
i thought that bloodred was a color apperance/morph, not a pattern type ?
"Bloodred" by a majority of votes, is a selectively bred color of the pattern mutation "diffuse". The actual gene is the diffuse gene and is used to produce pewters (charcoal bloodred), grantites (anery bloodred), fires (amel bloodred), lavender bloodred (plasma), etc. That pattern, in the "wild-type" color morph (normal color) may or may not end up looking like the classic "bloodred" - a deep red color over-all with minimal hint of the dorsal pattern. Other bloodreds do not end up with that ideal coloration, but are still homozygous for the diffuse gene that removes the belly checks as well as diffusing the side pattern and part or most of the dorsal pattern. As with other pattern morphs, there are the ideal and poor quality specimens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwb8568
o.k........the last few paragraphs got me confused but also thinking real hard. one question. would there not be a capital "L" in any of that somewhere since it would have had to be dominant?
In a wild-type/normal corn...the dominant gene would be indicated by LL. However, the lavender color is caused by a simple recessive gene. Any snake that is expressing the lavender color is homozygous for the recessive lavender gene...ll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwb8568
o.k...........the fun ended for me in this "Punnett Square" titled post. i don't need any coffee, just a nice hard wall. will start over maybe after some of the football games but before the steelers and see if the break helped. i can't believe that some of the 14-16 year old kids on here actually "get" this and a grown man is dwarfed by it.
LOL! I hope the answers to the above questions will help make this whole thing a little clearer. If you have trouble understanding the difference between dominant and recessive and homozygous and heterozygous, then you'll have trouble with the square.
 
Old 10-15-2006, 03:33 PM   #14
Susan
Time for another picture! This is Fiesta, an anery motley/stripe het amel, hypo and dilute.
(Aa bb ms Hh Qq - where aa = amel, bb = anery, ms = 1 motley gene and 1 stripe gene, hh = hypo and qq = dilute)
 
Old 10-15-2006, 03:52 PM   #15
Susan
I could also have written Fiesta's genetics as:

Aa bb Hh CC DD ms LL KK Qq VV ZZ OO - where aa = amel, bb = anery, hh = hypo, cc = caramel, dd = diffuse, mm = motley, ss = stripe, ll = lavender, kk = Sunkissed, qq = dilute, vv = lava, zz = Z morph (or anery C), oo = charcoal.

But that's alot of non-essential genetic information as it is usually assumed that if no recessive genes are indicated as being homozygous or heterozygous, that the snake carries the normal/wild-type genes.

Note that motley and stripe are combined. Those genes are located at the same locus and when combined (ie - one of each recessive gene is present) the resulting phenotype is motley as the motley gene is basically dominant to the stripe gene. Ultra and amel are also located at the same locus but when one of each gene is present, both genes have an effect on the phenotype resulting in ultramels which look basically half-way between an ultra and an amel.
 
Old 10-17-2006, 04:04 PM   #16
ChristinaM
Wow Susan, thank you for typing this up.... it's going to take me a day or two to get through it all, but I wanted to let you know that your time is appreciated
 
Old 10-17-2006, 04:11 PM   #17
pcar
I just found this thread. Wow, thanks Susan for starting this. I understand a lot of the genetics, but it did take a while for me to pick it all up. Especially when most of the information was scattered around and not in a solitary place.

Galen: I have the 2006 version of Serp's cornguide that you can borrow if you like. Also, one weekend when we both have some time, we can get together and go over this and anything else that you want as far as genetics. Just let me know.
 
Old 10-20-2006, 09:25 PM   #18
gwb8568
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar
Galen: I have the 2006 version of Serp's cornguide that you can borrow if you like. Also, one weekend when we both have some time, we can get together and go over this and anything else that you want as far as genetics. Just let me know.
sorry this is late, i have worked "way too much" all week and am just now (friday night) getting to check the forum. thanks paul, that would be cool..........we have sooooo many "one of these days" going on though, i forget what thread/topic is supposed to happen first.
susan, again.........thank you very much. as mentioned above i am just now getting back to this after a week. will try to do some "serious" looking this weekend.
 
Old 10-25-2006, 02:30 AM   #19
Ssthisto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan
For this example only...X het Y is the same thing as XY, just written differently. He can give to his offspring either an X or a Y. The woman can only give an X. His offspring can be either XX (a girl) or XY (a boy).
Another question. Isn't it "ZW" in reptiles - where a female is ZW (and can produce male or female offspring) and males are ZZ (and can only contribute the needed Z to make either gender)?
 
Old 10-25-2006, 06:09 AM   #20
Susan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssthisto
Another question. Isn't it "ZW" in reptiles - where a female is ZW (and can produce male or female offspring) and males are ZZ (and can only contribute the needed Z to make either gender)?
That is correct...it's ZW in reptiles, but for my example, I figured I should use something that I hoped was a lot more familiar to someone trying to learn genetics.
 

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