Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

wade said:

I have never heard a story that didn’t boil down to, ‘you broke the law and they caught you”.

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Had a student just today comment "It ain't cheating unless you get caught." 13 years old.

wade said:

I am sure there are bad cops out there but they are a tiny minority and the system is doing everything it can to identify and get rid of them. The last thing they want is headlines about a cop that has over stepped his bounds.

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And wouldn't the majority of those cops be preying on people who are bonafide criminals already? . . . doesn't make it right, but I haven't heard the legitimate story of them terrorizing someone innocent "just because". (Other than the movies of course!)

:shrugs:
D80

susang said:

My husband could be stopped his brother lives in Arizona and could be stopped dark skin, dark hair, dark eyes, half Hispanic.

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If your husband and his brothers are here legally, what is the problem?

The illegal immigrants are already breaking the law. Why is the new law wrong?? Illegal = not a legal immigrant. = not a taxpayer, but still a consumer of health care, school, police and fire and EMS services, etc.

When I renew my Florida drivers license, I now have to provide proof of US citizenship and a social security number and a legal address in this state. I am white, with red hair. I don't feel discriminated against.

airenlow said:

I lived in Mesa, AZ for 18 years and still have family in the area. I love this law! The only people that have anything to fear are the illegals. Legit citizens don't have anything to worry about. So you might be asked for your ID...big deal!

I agree it sucks for the tourism industry, but the state will be much better off in the long run.

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Buzzard said:

This law rocks.

I however have not read it all but understand that you must do something like run a light and/or break a law for them to legally check your ID.

I also think states should take more responsibility for what goes on in there state. So kudos to Az for sticking up for themselves.

I am sure there are some hard working, good illegals. But just like my great grandfather there is system that is in place to become a legal US citizen. I have a friend from Mexico that did it the right way. Him and his wife work hard and he recieved his citizen ship just this past year. I also have a Canadian friend in Pasco county FL. He to is here the right way. His brother however was deported back to Canada, after not wanting to go through the loops to become a citizen.

The illegals that come over are taking American jobs and the men and women who hire them are not claiming them therefore breaking the law too. So in my eyes illegals are illegals.
My wife was sued by an illegal after the illegal ran a red light T-boning my wife in an F250. Flipping the truck 2 times. Oh the illegal was driving a compact car. The women broke a leg and arm. She was charged for reckless driving and running the light and the accident. Oh and no DL. Went to the hospital recieved awesome care (Tampa General). Then released, has never paid the bill. and then hired some crackhead lawyer to sue my wife. Never was arrested, or checked. Finally after almost 6 years they have dropped the suit. She was found to be an illegal. Still never paid the hosptial bills ( I am sure we all paid it, for her, in some way), and was arrested and deported..... The 6 years of trama that my wife and I went through all the lawyer bill, time missed from work for lawyer visits ...I think you get the picture... I wont harp anymore but I will say this...

I have lots of friends of every color and creed. I will respect everyone if they follow the law. Immigration has laws for a reason and that is to protect us(Americans). If you want in our country to live and have a life that is awesome. Welcome to our country. Just do it the right way!!!

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wade said:

I think you are all overreacting and assuming the worst. Pres. Obama was concerned about profiling and the Governor stated very firmly that there would be no profiling. She know the eyes of the nation are on her and chomping at the bit waiting for the first infraction they can complain about. AZ sheriffs deputies are being lectured right no and being told they had better not stop someone unless they have a damn good reason. They are not stupid. You people are already convicting them and they haven’t done anything yet.

I think Betsy made a good point. This has brought national attention to the fact that at least the AZ citizens are fed up with the way the federal government is handling or not handling the problem. Even if this law is changed or done away with next month, it is putting Federal Gov in a position where it had better do something.

People who are afraid of going to AZ because they have a good suntan are being reactionary and foolish. When my kids were 8 years old I told them the only people who need to fear the police are the people who are breaking the law. It was true then and it is still true now.

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I agree with the the posts above. IF this law were written in Montana, no one would be screaming "racism". BUT, because we in AZ just happen to be on the southern border, all of the sudden those of us who believe in this law MUST be racists out to get Mexicans.

1. No one can stop you for looking Latin American. There has to be some other reason for stopping you. IF you suspect otherwise (ie profiling), you always have the ability/opportunity to take it to court... assuming you're here legally.

2. If ANYONE is stopped, they have to provide license and registration ANYWAY... No license? Then isn't there just cause to be concerned about citizenship? No registration? Isn't there just cause to be concerned about citizenship?

3. I'm Filipino and some have said that I do look somewhat Latino. If I'm stopped, I have the proper documentation AS EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE in my vehicle and wallet. If I don't then I SHOULD have to prove that I can either provide them or suffer the consequences.

4. This law was written ONLY because the Federal Government dilly-dallied about getting anything done. People are being murdered in their houses BY illegal immigrants as they cross the border and the Federal Government has done nothing. Janet Napolitano even STOPPED the border wall from being built.

5. 70% of Arizonans agree with this law... Hmmmm... THAT figure would have to include a goodly portion of latinos and other races as well. THEY must all be racists too, I guess.

Is the Federal Government going to "bully" AZ into line? Seems to me, states DO have the right to make decisions for themselves.

All this knee-jerk reaction is just inane. I'm a minority who isn't afraid of this law. Rather I embrace it as there are legal ways to gain citizenship. My grandparents had to do it legally... my sister-in-law (Mexican) did it legally... my dear Macedonian friends did it legally.

Why is it that we're simply supposed to ignore the illegal entries while there are those who are going about it correctly - sometimes taking YEARS and money in order to be here legally? If anything, NOT having this law would be REVERSE racism in the fact that one group (latinos) would be getting a "benefit" while others (Asians, Europeans, etc.) would NOT be getting that same "benefit" extended to them.

We'll see if AZ is able to weather the storm. I hope it does... and I hope other states - not only BORDER states come up with similar laws. Ignoring illegal immigration is NOT the answer.

A Republican Texas lawmaker plans to introduce a tough immigration measure similar to the new law in Arizona…..

Rep. Debbie Riddle of Tomball said she will push for the law in the January legislative session, according to Wednesday's editions of the San Antonio Express-News and Houston Chronicle.
"The first priority for any elected official is to make sure that the safety and security of Texans is well-established," said Riddle, who introduced a similar measure in 2009 that didn't get out of committee. "If our federal government did their job, then Arizona wouldn't have to take this action, and neither would Texas."

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Great post Fred, excellent points.

The over-reacting statements made me instantly think of the health care thread... and LOL. My how the tables turn so quickly.

That said, I think my mom has my birth certificate, and I still need to get a replacement SS card from when my wallet was stolen several years ago.

I have no proof, aside from a driver's license, that I am an american citizen. I also don't always carry my license with me unless I'm driving. And yet, white, blonde, green-eyed me, would not be targeted by a cop under this law and you know it. My hispanic best friend? Maybe. My philipino-but-looks-mexican friend? Very likely.

And for "Racial profiling doesn't happen often", my office manager could tell you quite differently. At 14 years old a bunch of cops pretty much pounced on him because a tall, thin, hispanic guy robbed a store a few blocks away. Please note that my manager is not very tall, was very overweight at that point, and *black*. Cops didn't care. He was in the right vicinity so that's all that mattered. It took his mom coming down to where they were and demanding information on the suspect before they let him go and their reasoning, despite him looking nothing like their perp, was that my manager was "looking suspicious". Yes, a 14 year old kid walking to the 7-11 to get a donut is highly suspicious.

I can also tell when cops are in the last few days of their monthly quota. We counted 8 people pulled over in front of my hospital in the span of 6 hours for traffic tickets by the same cop. Sounds like an ambush to me. I've also seen cop cars hiding down alleys or behind bushes, waiting for people to go past them. Yes, cops ambush people.

Nanci said:

If your husband and his brothers are here legally, what is the problem?

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They were born in Brubank, CA, Mom born in New Mexico, Dad born in Missouri. All legal, all pay taxes, all exceptionally hard working. Why should they have to carry proof of citizenship anymore then I do.

Racial profiling goes on by everyone everywhere... no matter what we say we all do it. When you look at a person you see their race, attire, demeanor, hear their words, their accent, their language and make a preliminary decision. that is normal. What makes you think that police officers do not do the same thing??? they do so based on their job and their every day life as a LEO. If the police ask to see my ID, no big deal, it is a check, not a jailing. Same thing. What AZ is doing is exactly what Russia does current day near Chechnya. Show you are allowed to be there and you can be on your way.

My dad has been stopped by boarder patrol (dark skin ... during the summer...native american). They checked his ID and he was on his way.




If you put this up against the terrorism that the people of AZ have been facing all along the mexican boarder I am sure there are a great deal of Arizonians who will gladly show their ID rather than have people kidnapped, murdered, raped, etc..


People should be just as angry when they see things like these going on as they are about the immigration law... and yet they are not... not at all.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_9e773fd0-4560-569a-921e-aa8b2dc3c95b.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63Q5HI20100427?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

http://www.nogalesinternational.com/articles/2010/04/02/news/doc4bb614bd452cb284184980.txt

The_Thunderer said:

I agree with the the posts above. IF this law were written in Montana, no one would be screaming "racism". BUT, because we in AZ just happen to be on the southern border, all of the sudden those of us who believe in this law MUST be racists out to get Mexicans.

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Didn't the 9/11 terrorists come through Canada. This would set better if Montana, Washington, Idaho, North Dakota... adopted the same laws.
People get killed in their homes everday and it's not all by illegal immigrants.

susang said:

They were born in Brubank, CA, Mom born in New Mexico, Dad born in Missouri. All legal, all pay taxes, all exceptionally hard working. Why should they have to carry proof of citizenship anymore then I do.

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Why is that a bad thing?

If you put this up against the terrorism that the people of AZ have been facing all along the mexican boarder I am sure there are a great deal of Arizonians who will gladly show their ID rather than have people kidnapped, murdered, raped, etc..

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THIS is a good point. But the law is still worded poorly. Reasonable suspicion is far too broad. Dangerously broad as it gives cops, who in my experience tend to be people who often feel stressed and overwhelmed by all the crud they have to deal with each day, a reason to act upon subconscious prejudices.

As a teenager I encountered a cop who apparently strongly disliked women. He was rude and condescending to both me and my mother, and refused to help us or dust for fingerprints... even though I'd been stalked for a month and someone tried to break into the house when it was just me there. And his "excuse" was that because it was 3 hours post event before I called the cops that it was probably just a dispute with my boyfriend and I was lying. In truth, I had been hiding in my closet with a knife, basically cowering in terror. But no, a 17 year old wouldn't be terrified of a guy banging on the windows and pulling on the doors, right?

wade said:

Great post Fred, excellent points.

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I agree 100%. Good post Fred. How far will we go to uphold and protect our nation and what we used to stand for. If you are legal, you are in the system, papers or no papers. I would take absolutely no offense if I moved to another country and they would perform random ID checks on me (assuming an honest enforcement), as I would see it- if I were a legal citizen it would actually give me a sense of security & comfort to know that that country would be upholding the laws, that I would not be providing for illegals and that they were ensuring that the necessary laws and regulations have been followed by everyone to get the sought after legal status.
I would NEVER go into another country and demand rights for free, all the while waving my native flag (which I see plenty of illegals doing). It literally makes me sick to my stomach.

Nanci said:

Why is that a bad thing?

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It just scares me, as I said earlier just sounds a like the beginning of Nazi, Germany. Maybe because I don't want to do the work many immigrants do, I don't think a lot of us would. Maybe because when I was a kid blacks were profiled and I hated it. I don't know Nanci.

I do have a question I read requirements for Arizona DL or ID, is that going to be enough? Maybe I don't get it.

But Arizona isn't saying they don't want any Mexicans in the state. They are saying they don't want _any_ person there illegally, in the state. The US citizens of Mexican heritage are part of the 70% of Arizona's citizenship who approve of the law.

I'm Hispanic but I probably wouldn't get "profiled" since I do look white enough to pass for a gringa. But I have to agree with Shiari here cops aren't all angels. They have that badge and that does go to some people's heads. I have gotten a couple tickets in my life and some officers are more condescending and treat you in a less respectful way than others. They are just people, not perfect and no I don't like the idea of them having more power. I grew up in one of those countries and if you did you instinctively wouldn't trust police to always do the right thing either, because while things are going well here it's all innocent enough that we all have to carry ID at all time but where does that lead, susang said it well in her post a bit like the beginnings of Nazi Germany.
Oh well, wasn't planning to go to AZ anyway

Tara80 said:

I would take absolutely no offense if I moved to another country and they would perform random ID checks on me (assuming an honest enforcement), as I would see it

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I added an emphasis to the quotation. That's the issue those who object to this law are worried about. Honest enforcement. I am not assuming there will be DIShonest enforcement, BTW. I am voicing what I think the concern among the "anti" people is.

Shiari said:

The over-reacting statements made me instantly think of the health care thread... and LOL. My how the tables turn so quickly.

Different thing entirely. The government has a long history of overspending and inefficiency. The police have a history of doing the very best they can to be fair and evenhanded.

That said, I think my mom has my birth certificate, and I still need to get a replacement SS card from when my wallet was stolen several years ago.

I have no proof, aside from a driver's license, that I am an american citizen. I also don't always carry my license with me unless I'm driving. And yet, white, blonde, green-eyed me, would not be targeted by a cop under this law and you know it. My hispanic best friend? Maybe. My philipino-but-looks-mexican friend? Very likely.

Actually it is as always has been the law that you should be able to identify yourself if asked to by a police officer. That is not new. Otherwise you are considered a vagrant.

And for "Racial profiling doesn't happen often", my office manager could tell you quite differently. At 14 years old a bunch of cops pretty much pounced on him because a tall, thin, hispanic guy robbed a store a few blocks away. Please note that my manager is not very tall, was very overweight at that point, and *black*. Cops didn't care. ....

I shortened your statement a little. We can all come up with stories about when the police made a mistake or did something wrong. That is not the rule it is the exception.

I can also tell when cops are in the last few days of their monthly quota. We counted 8 people pulled over in front of my hospital in the span of 6 hours for traffic tickets by the same cop. Sounds like an ambush to me. I've also seen cop cars hiding down alleys or behind bushes, waiting for people to go past them. Yes, cops ambush people.

You bet the police hide and try to catch you breaking the law. That is their job. There is nothing wrong with that. If the pulled over 8 people in front of your hospital, I would be willing to bet all 8 of them had broken the law. So whats your point?

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Shiari said:

THIS is a good point. But the law is still worded poorly. Reasonable suspicion is far too broad. Dangerously broad as it gives cops, who in my experience tend to be people who often feel stressed and overwhelmed by all the crud they have to deal with each day, a reason to act upon subconscious prejudices.

This is what the law has always said. This is not new. A police man can not stop you on the street without cause. There has to be a reasonable suspicion before he can stop you.

As a teenager I encountered a cop who apparently strongly disliked women. He was rude and condescending ....I am editing again....knife, basically cowering in terror. But no, a 17 year old wouldn't be terrified of a guy banging on the windows and pulling on the doors, right?

Once again, we can all come up with stories where we feel the police made a mistake. It may be that the policeman knew how to do his job better that you did. Either way it doesn't matter. The police stop tens of thousands of people everyday without complaint. You have come up with two second hand stories. This is not the norm. You can't judge police in general based on a couple of stories.

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There is nothing the news likes better than a bad cop. If police were running rampant in the street abusing their power left and right don't you think it would be Headline news? Every bad cop that ever walked the street has been in the paper. It is rare, it ends up in court and on the front page, and it is the exception to the rule.

wade said:

There is nothing the news likes better than a bad cop. If police were running rampant in the street abusing their power left and right don't you think it would be Headline news? Every bad cop that ever walked the street has been in the paper. It is rare, it ends up in court and on the front page, and it is the exception to the rule.

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Exactly Wade.

SOMEONE has to protect us. SOMEONE has to enforce the laws. WHERE do you draw the line in the sand. I am sure none of you guys want to go out and do their job? Where would we be without our military and our law enforcement. They put their life on the line DAILY so that you and I can sit here and and bicker about their 'honesty' on these forums. Of course no one is perfect, but what would we have without laws? Chaos, a 3rd world country and a lack of structure of any sort (medical, education, etc). It all goes hand in hand. I know plenty of cops (my dad being one of them) and for the most part they are hard working good individuals.. and as Wade stated, they wouldn't get very far if they did take advantage of someone.

Here is my take on that law. I know my opinion may not be popular with some. So be it.

My husband is an immigrant from Scotland. Yes, he has his legal permanent resident visa. My children are half hispanic, as their father is full-blooded Hispanic. My kiddos were born here in OR. Their father was born and raised in CA, as were his parents, and their parents before them.

I am concerned by this law. At least one of my children looks "brown". Sooooo... now what? If he visits AZ, does that mean he needs to carry his birth certificate or U.S. Passport with him at all times? I'm pretty sure a simple driver's license or state ID isn't going to cut it. Sheesh.

I see it being a huge problem just for my family. All of us are legal, but some of my children take after their hispanic father looks-wise. They would undoubtedly be harassed, and would have no option but to carry bulky paperwork with them to visit AZ. My husband, with his Scottish accent, would undoubtedly be asked for his "papers". While not a problem to SHOW them, there is a perception by all of us here that we would be subject to hostility and harassment by law enforcement in AZ should we visit that state. It is an insult in our minds, and we will not visit AZ for as long as this law is on the books, which is too bad, because that was on our list of places to visit in May while we're on vacation. It's just not worth the hassle, imho.

We may be only 5 people, but if a lot of 5 person families, and larger companies boycott the tourism industry in AZ, we will make a statement. Whether it effects a change or repeal of the new law remains to be seen.

Legally I have to carry my green card, I am not a citizen, I am a resident alien.. This is the document that must be produced upon request.. I just wish I never spent the time and money doing things legally, I bet I would have saved a grip of cash... If things were done through the proper channels there is no problem.. I don't see what the issue is..

Didn't the 9/11 terrorists come through Canada. This would set better if Montana, Washington, Idaho, North Dakota... adopted the same laws.
People get killed in their homes everday and it's not all by illegal immigrants.

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Negative, this has been proven an urban legend.. I wonder where I can find this posted online.. The guy that wanted to pop a hole through LAX crossed from Canada, none of the hijackers every did from my understanding..

But Arizona isn't saying they don't want any Mexicans in the state. They are saying they don't want _any_ person there illegally, in the state. The US citizens of Mexican heritage are part of the 70% of Arizona's citizenship who approve of the law.

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They don't care if there is a population of Hispanic folk, they are concered with the illegally migrated folk, whether they are from Mexico or any other country.. Think thats a line of crap, you obviously never got pulled and searched through an immigration line prior to 9/11, I have... People forget the part that includes folk of hispanic descent voting on that law as well..

For the record, I have no problem with people immigrating legally to any country, I do have issues that are related to people immigrating illegally, thus it reflects poorly on any person who has immigrated to a new country.. As an immigrant, I do and have dealt with the immigrant issues, and if any one knows me or has met me personally, they know there is no mistaking me from coming over the southern border.. ...

Mrs. Z, I understand your concern but now there are MANY more ways to tell if someone is legal or not. Valid drivers license, proof of insurance (which are two items that are required to be on you anyway) and the registration systems. As far as I know, most police cars have a computer system and ways to look up anyone who is legal.