Some plans for the future..

Okay..So after being on here the past few weeks and seeing all the new babies hatching and hearing about all these projects people are working on, I have decided that I also need a project..Something to strive for and accomplish (not to mention creating a new kind of morph successfully would really help my business later on..lol...:crazy01: ) Anyway...so here are some project ideas I would like to test out...However..since I am still new to the whole genetics thing (I've been studying for a year..yet I feel I don't know a thing..lol)..I'm going to need some help on these..So if anyone could tell me what kind of corns I would need to accomplish my goal for each project..or just tell me if my project is impossible...it would be greatly welcomed and appreciated..so..on with the plans..

- Pied-Sided Anery Corn
(I would guess I need a blizzard or snow along with an anery het for blizzard or snow..any thoughts?)

- Pied-Sided Bloodred Corn
(I know this already somewhat exists and is being worked on..but I would like to enter this field as well and see what I could make of it..so what corns, besides the obvious bloodred corn do I need for this project?)

- Red Speckled Anery or Red speckled blizzard
(This one is kind of a 2 in one as I'm not sure which one I would like to go with..but either one I would like the same results..a normal pattern anery or blizzard but with speckles of red scales here and there..I think it would be quite attractive..I'm even considering calling the red speckle blizzard the "Christmas Corn"..lol..)

And those are my ideas..So...I'm ready for any thoughts, opinions, ideas..etc..lol

good luck on those projects...but the way they can be done is just would take some time but youll love the results...

For the pied-anery, I would cross a pied to a snow. Because all of the children will be hets instead of solid morphs, you'll get more morphs (even if they are just pied-sided fires and pied-sided granites and pied-sided bloods). That's just how I would go about it.

Well ...

Maize411 said:

- Pied-Sided Anery Corn
(I would guess I need a blizzard or snow along with an anery het for blizzard or snow..any thoughts?)

Has anyone separated pied-sided from diffused?

- Pied-Sided Bloodred Corn
(I know this already somewhat exists and is being worked on..but I would like to enter this field as well and see what I could make of it..so what corns, besides the obvious bloodred corn do I need for this project?)

I'd buy the most extreme pied-sideds I could afford, and go from there.


- Red Speckled Anery or Red speckled blizzard
(This one is kind of a 2 in one as I'm not sure which one I would like to go with..but either one I would like the same results..a normal pattern anery or blizzard but with speckles of red scales here and there..I think it would be quite attractive..I'm even considering calling the red speckle blizzard the "Christmas Corn"..lol..)

I believe there is already a type of hypo being tested that is called Christmas.

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Robbie, I'm not sure pied-sided has been proven to be a trait a snake can be het for.

Nanci said:

Robbie, I'm not sure pied-sided has been proven to be a trait a snake can be het for.

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Really? Then why are people selling "het pieds" if there's no guarantee?
(I do believe you, but I've seen het pieds up for sale, so I thought it was already a done deal)

Well I can change the name..I just thought Christmas corn sounded cute...LOL..guess I could always go with confetti corn ...LOL has another cute ring to it..I know these projects are going to take some time to accomplish but I am determined to at least try I think out of all of my projects the pied anery and confetti blizzard ( or snow..whichever one works out better) would probably be my greatest achievements and would be the most physically appealing

Nanci said:

Robbie, I'm not sure pied-sided has been proven to be a trait a snake can be het for.

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What she said.

RobbiesCornField said:

Really? Then why are people selling "het pieds" if there's no guarantee?
(I do believe you, but I've seen het pieds up for sale, so I thought it was already a done deal)

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Because people will do anything to make money. Also, because at first it was assumed pied-sided was recessive before the proper tests were done....PLUS there are apparently a couple of lines out there that complicate the whole mess.

Maize411 said:

- Red Speckled Anery or Red speckled blizzard
(This one is kind of a 2 in one as I'm not sure which one I would like to go with..but either one I would like the same results..a normal pattern anery or blizzard but with speckles of red scales here and there..I think it would be quite attractive..I'm even considering calling the red speckle blizzard the "Christmas Corn"..lol..)

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Nice project but genetically you are going to need ingredients to produce something like that. So far, I don't know of a speckled corn out there. So...how will you get speckling? The anery/blizzard part won't be a problem but finding a non-existent speckled gene might be.

I wouldn't use the name "confetti corn" though or people are going to think you are "Pasco Paul" of the champagne snows.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32906&highlight=confetti

Jeff, thanks for the pied clarification.
As far as the speckled goes, here's some photos of calico's from the Daytona reptile show last year.

The gene is out there! Yay!! I just have to find a way to get red speckles (probably in amels) then I have to start somehow passing that gene to a blizzard...ohhh the fun this will be!! LOL

Maize411 said:

The gene is out there! Yay!!

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Don't get too excited...calico has not been proven simple recessive.....

grrr...this science talk confuses me..I know I'm being hard to work with here..but can someone tell me what not being simple recessive means?? sorry..

http://www.classreptilia.com/basic_genetics.htm

Here's a link to a bunch of different genetic terms.. these words confused me at first too!

Maize411 said:

grrr...this science talk confuses me..I know I'm being hard to work with here..but can someone tell me what not being simple recessive means?? sorry..

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simple recessive;

albino x normal= normal babies HET albino, the albino gene is now recessive.

breed two babies from the above now you have

Normal (het) albino x Normal (het) Albino = some normals het albino, some just normals and some amels

Does that help any at all or have I made things worse? I am not a geneticist either, but I am trying to lear too each day.

dc

So how do you make certain traits you want come out? Like the pied trait..how exactly do you get the pied pattern to increase and show more...If the gene that causes it is just a het..then wouldn't you just get bloods het for (whatever was used to create the pied pattern in bloods)..How did the pattern suddenly start to take over? For my speckle red Blizzard..I would need a pure white corn (maybe a little yellow..) with red freckled patterns in it's scales..a hard thing to make...and even harder to bring out...how exactly do you get a pattern of choice..to start actually..take over? Is it just by breeding and choosing each offspring that shows small signs of the desired change? Is inbreeding these desired offspring to one another a way to get the desired pattern to become more dominant?

Okay, so I don't know crap about new genes or how you would combine anything to make "speckled" such, but I have an idea for you concerning the idea of a "speckled blizzard."

If I remember right, it's normal for snows (don't know about blizzards) to have some colored specks on a scale here and there... My snow boy has an orange dot on one scale (that I know of). If you could find snows (and blizzards?) with noticeable imperfections like this, you may be able to accomplish your goal through selective breeding?

Sorry if my idea is stupid. I'm still getting a hang of this stuff, too... I don't even know if my boy's orange dot is "normal" or not. =) Just an idea for you, though!

Maize411 said:

So how do you make certain traits you want come out? Like the pied trait..how exactly do you get the pied pattern to increase and show more...If the gene that causes it is just a het..then wouldn't you just get bloods het for (whatever was used to create the pied pattern in bloods)..How did the pattern suddenly start to take over? For my speckle red Blizzard..I would need a pure white corn (maybe a little yellow..) with red freckled patterns in it's scales..a hard thing to make...and even harder to bring out...how exactly do you get a pattern of choice..to start actually..take over? Is it just by breeding and choosing each offspring that shows small signs of the desired change? Is inbreeding these desired offspring to one another a way to get the desired pattern to become more dominant?

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Again, let me say clearly, I am NOT A GENETISIST, but here goes. “Traits” as you describe, for the most part are mutations. So yes to one of your questions, inbreeding, or line breeding as it is called, does expose mutations sometimes because the trait doesn’t “escape” with a larger gene pool. However, line breeding can also expose bad traits but that is a discussion for another thread. As far as answering how the PS trait started to manifest or any other trait, I can not answer that question. They just show up and we hope to be there to identify this and expose it further in most cases.

In regards to “increasing” the PS look, there is currently no instruction manual. Read my post later in the day for more info on the PS trait. To answer your question on how to get a pattern or trait to take over, that is actually two completely different issues. Color traits are much easier to reproduce and improve. You do so by selective breeding. Breed the adults, keep the best two babies that are a little better than the parents and raise and breed them, then do the same with there babies. Most morphs that are selectively bred, especially in the albino family, take generations upon generations to achieve a goal.

Floof said:

Okay, so I don't know crap about new genes or how you would combine anything to make "speckled" such, but I have an idea for you concerning the idea of a "speckled blizzard."

If I remember right, it's normal for snows (don't know about blizzards) to have some colored specks on a scale here and there... My snow boy has an orange dot on one scale (that I know of). If you could find snows (and blizzards?) with noticeable imperfections like this, you may be able to accomplish your goal through selective breeding?

Sorry if my idea is stupid. I'm still getting a hang of this stuff, too... I don't even know if my boy's orange dot is "normal" or not. =) Just an idea for you, though!

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I wouldn’t say it is normal for snows to have some colored scales, but it is not uncommon, but to date, this has not been reproducible in future generations. If I am wrong, I would enjoy seeing the results from others.

Hope this helps.

dc

MohrSnakes said:

Because people will do anything to make money.

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Now Jeff, we don't want to scare off the new guys/gals right off the bat, not everyone is in this for money only. Jeff is right though, more test should have been performed before the PS was labled simple recessive.

My understanding is that the South Mountain line of PS x PS does produce PS babies, however, the expression level is so far highly variable. Hence KJUN's "stepped" price list for these guys. To date, they are not seeing Mendelian results in the crosses. It isn't like breeding an amel to a het amel where you get 25% amels. Hopefully it will be proven simple recessive or not this year. I think Bayou is expecting a good number of them and South Mountain will have several clutches also.

Don and I have talked ALOT about this, so I am interested in others thoughts. Is this trait possibly the result of selective breeding for diffusion? In the quest for the perfect bloodred they have been bred to remove the black, that has happened, now they have been bred to remove the pattern, that has happened, they have been bred for super diffusion on the laterals, that has happened, so maybe the nexxt step as these genes are "removing" colors and patterns was to start removing the red on the sides? Look at some of the bloodreds over the years as they have progressed. A fair amount have seen the red on their sides get lighter and lighter, so maybe that is what we are seeing. If that is the case, then it can be reproduced by line breeding but it is not simple recessive. Just a thought.

In regards to the calico/ruby flecked/paradox snow, whatever you want to call it, they have been around for a while and to date, no one has proven it recessive. Maybe that will change, but not so far. I am a little suprised that more expert opinion has not been offered on this thread regarding that trait.

dc