Opinions on WC

Well we do not want to start a WC vs CB war. THat wouold be dumb, but express opinions away. No one will prbably be swayed one way or the other. But this is an interesting topic. But new blood is needed just to keep negative recessively heritable traits from becoming the norm. One way to put it on a smaller scale, is the major occurances of hemophilia among the royals back when they married within strict family trees, right?

Yes I understand what you and Quigs are getting at, and corn snakes are already heavily inbred to my knowledge. Just, they should only be caught for that really, not personal pleasure. IMO!!

I personally do not feel there is anything wrong with someone collecting WC corns if they can and feel so inclined. And this is my reasoning.

You do not find a ton of people out combing the country side looking for WC corns. So it is not like people are out there wipping out the wild populations. Most people that catch and collect them are doing so to improve their lines in some way, whether it be new blood or a paritcularly interesting speciman that they hope may hold the key to a new type. There are a few people who do collect to sell, but obviously that is not the norm otherwise you would see a myriad of adds with wild caughts for sale, which we do not see. Wild caught specimens are definitely not in high demand as the CB morphs far outshine most WC and people are more attracted to the CB's, and without a lucrative market the incentive to catch them for profit is very dimineshed. So, I do not feel that the demand for WC specimens posses any threats to the wild populations.

I am sure that the amount of these animals that are run over on the roads yearly FAR outweighs any impact that collectors make on the species. This is a shame, but an unavoidable problem.

So, if some people really want to add a wild caught speciman to their collection for their reasons, I see no problem with it. Lucky for all of us corn fans, the people who first started collecting and keeping them as "pets" have allowed us to reap the benefits by the present hobby we have. Do we "NEED" more wild caughts to aid the corn hobby? I would say the argument to say NO would be right. But does what collecting that occurs harm the wild population? I also don't think so. Heck, when the first herping of corns happened years back, that was when the pull on the WC populations would have been high and yet it did not dessimate the species.

Given all this and the fact that more are probably killed by people who "hate" snakes and kill any they see in their yards than by the collector and the fact that at least with the collector the snake is not being killed, I have to say definitely no, I do not feel it is wrong or bad to collect them.

NOW if you said people were collecting them by the thousands for the sake of killing them, than yes, I would be up in arms over it. But as it stands, I do not feel I have a right to judge if someone wants to add a WC to their collection. And I also don't feel I should judge if that person is collecting one for the joy of owing a WC specimen. It is no different than us owning the CB ones, just because ours are CB does NOT mean that they are "happy" being in confinement. So, if someone owns a CB corn, they really are not any different than someone owning a WC one in my opinion. It is the care they give the snakes they own that is HIGHLY important.

No, I am not saying that they are wrong for disagreeing with me, I just merely used it as an example of how different the two sides of the ocean are and think. This is not an argument, trust me, I just feel strongly that it is ok to collect corns and I always will, There is an ample amount of corns still in the wild, I start seeing them around February and I was still catching them until december 16th, they all were with in one mile of my house, the total number this year was around 20+ of all ages and looks. I still don't see why you are so bothered by this, in all reality if anyone should be worried it should be us over here on this side of the ocean, why not focus more of the poaching of more endangered species like Shingle back skinks and such.

Just, they should only be caught for that really, not personal pleasure.

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Why do you feel this way? I feel keeping one or more corns for pleasure to be fine, I do so myself. Does that make me evil? Just because I like the beauty and alot of the different attitudes of WC's? Do you think they are being poached by the thousands or something? Trust me they are not. What is wrong with keeping a WC for pleasure? I do so since I like to see the beautiful babies they throw. You seem to be changing your story now, 1st ITS BAD, 2nd I feel its wrong, 3rd Its ok for new blood, 4th now what? Oh its ok as long as you don't do it on a monday?

:-offtopic This is a little off topic but I like that little beauty you found on the road. THe pic on the website is great!

CornCrazy, I changed my mind about WC corns for stronger bloodlines, I had never thought of this, that's why. Why are you being repeatedly rude to me? Am I not allowed to disagree with WC just because I live in a different country? I have no problem with your judgement, you can enjoy catching wild corns all you want, it's just a thing I disagree with that's all. Can you please stop the offensive posts?

Thanks Eddie, I do not feel as though my posts are rude, I am sorry you feel that way. I would actually like my questions answered I have asked them a couple times. But whatever. YOU said it took you time to build up courage to make this post so did you not expect some hard ball questions?

I have answered all of you questions CrazyCorn, if you want to be rude to me do it over PM. Tell me anymore questions I have missed if you want.

PM'ing is not for being rude. Here are the questions.

What is wrong with keeping a WC for pleasure?

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why not focus more of the poaching of more endangered species like Shingle back skinks and such.

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Quote:"no matter how much people talk to me about the good of WC I just can't accept it" So why did you start up this thread anyway? You even said you just can't accept it so why did you start this thread? You want to have "petty" arguments about it?

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Thanks.

OK, here's my answers to your questions:

I disagree with WC because if a corn was born in the wild, I feel it should stay in the wild, it's not fair on it to keep it in a cage when it was so used to life out in the open. You will probably talk about me not realising where we got corns in the first place but I do, but now we have CB so we don't need WC anymore, unless to make bloodlines stronger which was explained to me by Quigs. Yeah I don't feel too happy about that either but I feel better about it than WC that are caught for the pleasure of the capturer.

What do you see me as? One of those, what I've seen Americans say on this site, PETA members? I wanted to know what others thought about this matter, yes I am sorry I responded too much making it seem as though I'm trying to change other people's way of thinking and I again apoligize. I care about all animals, if I was to support an endangered species fund then it would seem unfair to chose one. Plus I have no money! I'm still in school, I cannot get a job.

Again I say I started this post to see other's views on the matter, but not to change my own. Yes my view has been changed slightly thankful to Quigs, but I still stay mostly by my own judgement, as will everybody else.

Fair?

I disagree with WC because if a corn was born in the wild, I feel it should stay in the wild, it's not fair on it to keep it in a cage when it was so used to life out in the open. You will probably talk about me not realising where we got corns in the first place but I do, but now we have CB so we don't need WC anymore, unless to make bloodlines stronger which was explained to me by Quigs. Yeah I don't feel too happy about that either but I feel better about it than WC that are caught for the pleasure of the capturer.

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Unfortunately your reasoning here just doesn't really hold up.
Snakes can't comprehend fair or unfair.
When corns are kept in captivity, conditions are better then in the wild. They do not have to compete for food, they do not have to go long periods between meals, they have optimal temperatures at all times so they don't have to search out these temperature ranges, they do not have to avoid predators and they definitely won't get run over by a car. Due to these factors and others, corn snakes live much longer in captivity.
So, if there was a fair or an unfair it would seem unfair to leave them in the terrible conditions of the wild...lol
As far as being kept for the pleasure of the captor????? That is why we have corn snakes. They bring us pleasure. We like them! Is there really any difference between keeping a captive bred corn snake or a wild caught corn snake for pleasure. Wild caught corn snakes adapt to captivity quickly and make excellent pets so it can't be THAT bad on them.
Oh well, some of us are fine with moderate removal from the wild and some of us are against it. This has been the same forever and will continue to be so.
Very rarely does either side change it's mind so if you take from the wild be responsible and if you are against taking from the wild, don't do it.
Just for the record, I do not have any wild caught snakes at this time but if I find the right corn snake specimen in my area I will not hesitate to add it to my collection.
In the '80's I had a wild caught corn, five wild caught black rat snakes and a wild caught eastern/black king snake and can tell you they were definitely doing better in my care then they would have in the wild.
ok, I'm done now....LOL

OK, I have heard many people say this about WC, not having to compete for food, no danger of being ran over etc. But the way I think of it is this:
Imagine if you were taken from your everyday life and put in a room. The room has a heater that keeps it at a constant temperature that is comfortable for you. There is a bed for you to sleep in. There is a chair for you to sit on. Every day you will be fed cereal in the morning, sandwiches at midday and a chicken dinner in the evening. There will also be a toilet facilities and a shower. Everything will be kept clean for you, you don't have to do anything to earn it, just live in this room. Yeah, you might get a TV if you're lucky. So you have been taken from your normal life and you now live like this. You've never got to worry about work again. You'll never be in danger from car accidents, murderers or anything else that can harm your life. This is now your home, you stay until you die.
Is this not the human equivalent more or less of WC? Yes CB live like this but they have never lived anywhere else, and they would be kept in a viv no matter what, that's what they have been born to. You'll probably say that the wild corn won't remember its previous home but how could anybody be sure? We don't know what's going on in their minds and probably never will.

But the mental, emotional, physical needs of a snake cannot be compared to the needs of a human being. Snakes and humans are no where near at the same "level" when it comes to those things..(for a lack of a better word).

I know Traci1 but I can't help the way I feel, there are many things we don't know about corn snakes. We don't know whether they really miss living free or feel sadness or other similar emotions.

Being from the UK, I feel I need to get involved with this debate.
I don`t think anyone is right or wrong here I think its just the way we`re educated on different sides of the "pond".
Here in Britain we have decimated our wildlife over the centuries, and heavy population dosn`t help. Only now are people being educated to care for and look after their environment. Collecting and selling any native wildlife is illegal, and can carry penalties.
Because of this approach our wildlife is making a remarkable recovery and species are being reintroduced and are thriving.
Over in the US you obviously dont have the same problems we have, so view things differently.
So no one is right or wrong, just educated differently over our respective wildlife.

That's nicely said WAS1.

:-offtopic

Who would've thought - a (minor) flame war without Jicin at the epicenter!

Speaking of which, what ever happened to our little antichrist of the forums? Haven't seen her post anything lately. (Man, I hope mentioning her name doesn't make her reappear.)

Personally...

And no, I'm NOT going to do this, but what I would like to do would be to release a few CB corns INTO the wild. They're not native to PA, and IMHO, any creature that preys exclusively on mice and rats would be a welcome addition to the local ecology.

And once again, for those of you out there inclined to nail me on this, I will not be releasing any CBs into the wild

Hehe, rippit I have read some of Jicin's posts. She has left because she has had enough of this forum, I speak to her regularly on AIM and enjoy talking with her, I guess you all just caught her bad side.