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Opinions on WC

Do you agree with wild catching corns?

  • Yes

    Votes: 88 60.3%
  • No

    Votes: 58 39.7%

  • Total voters
    146
I agree with Chip. I took the WC that I found last year along with some other snakes (boas, pythons) to my childs school for "reptile day". Most of the kids had never touched a snake, they thought snakes were slimy. After doing a short presentation, I let the kids come up one at a time and touch a snake. Even the kids who were initially terrified of the idea of a snake in the same room with them were curious enough to touch a snake. they initially told me if they saw a snake in their yard they would kill it or have somebody else kill it. They were impressed with how beautiful and gentle the snakes were and promised not to kill one if they found it. If the WC snake saves just one snake in the wild from being killed isnt that what we want, to educate the public?
 
elrojo said:
I was responding to "snowing," not your post. Ecologically speaking, you and I are essentially doing the same thing.
And extra "props" for educating people. That is the most important thing any of us can do for the betterment of the species. Anyone with calm snakes, consider doing a program at a school, church, boys/girls club, any of these places are happy to have someone come in and do a presentation. Especially if you have native local species to teach identification (and bring some photos of local venomous species.) If only one kid leaves wanting to own a snake or at least not kill every one on sight, it is worth our time.

Chip, you right on the muney brutha. Gotta spend time teachin and educatin about snakes. Folk are jus scared of what they don't know.

Regardless of how ya feel about herpin, herpin is learnin. Every time ya go to the field ya learn somin about reptiles. Like where they livin, what they eatin, when they movin. All of these thangs are important to know for keepin em happy inside ya house. Some of the best keepers are field herpers. ;)
 
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I think I'm gonna have to agree with Quigs' post right from the beginning of this thread. I don't agree with mass collection, but I do understand that "new blood" is something that is necessary sometimes. Personally, I don't think I could do it, but if it's done smartly, then I have no problem with it.

Just out of curiousity, is it legal to release a corn in an area where it's native? If so, would the people who are 100% against WC still feel that way if the WC one was replaced by one individual from the F1 generation? After all, it's filling in the hole left by taking the wild one originally... just a thought...
 
TrpnBils said:
Just out of curiousity, is it legal to release a corn in an area where it's native? If so, would the people who are 100% against WC still feel that way if the WC one was replaced by one individual from the F1 generation? After all, it's filling in the hole left by taking the wild one originally... just a thought...

I am licensed by the State of NC Dept of Wildlife Resources to collect corn snakes. To qualify for said license, I must submit an annual report of my activities. They don't seem to have a problem with it. I can not speak for other state laws.
 
I agree with the whole thought process that there's nothing wrong with taking a few corns for introduction of new blood lines--nothing wrong with that at all, and it's beneficial to the population.

Not a slight on anyone here, but you guys do realize that "Itsnowingcorns" is 14, right?

You're not going to change his mind--and I think it's pretty pointless to even try.

I'll be going camping this weekend, and you better believe that while I'm in the middle of the pine-forest I'll be taking a few walks and checking things out. If I happen to see something I like, it'll be coming home with me for breeding purposes--and I see nothing wrong with that.


Itsnowingcorns, you've tripped my economics thought process--I know I know, but I'm an econ major and I've just got to respond to this.

You say there's an overflow of corns in the US? That would indicate that suppy is greater than demand, and therefore no breeder would get away with charging upwards of $1000 for specific morphs.

If there was THAT big of an overflow, people would have to give them away--and I dont see that happening.
 
Interesting debate!

I didn't stumble upon it until just now. Guess I have to put in my 2 cents worth - well maybe more like $20 worth, lol!

Personally, I only want wc in my collection for new bloodlines or new mutations. I only have 1 wc now - he has a little white patch on his neck. I do plan to catch some wc from the locale of the original bloodreds to see if they have the ability to deepen the red on our cb line.

That said, lots of posters made some good points, pro and con. I like to try to think about it from a logical / biological standpoint rather than on an emotional level. Some thoughts I have to agree with from previous posts, such as: in my experience and observations, corns are not social enough or mentally equipped to really appreciate our concept of freedom, and probably prefer secure and well fed to free. Of course nobody can read their minds, but we can only guess based on observation, and as mentioned before, what is already known about brains and mental /emotional ability in humans or other higher animals.

In most areas where corns are commonly collected, they are found in artificially large numbers because of agricultural use of the environment. Corns, like rats and mice, seem to do unusually well in those semi developed areas. They are actually quite plentiful in some of the more densely inhabited areas of the Florida Keys - we saw them under paper plates and trash right in the weedy area next to the road! So collecting pressure is unlikely to be a threat to most populations, although there are still areas where they are protected for various reasons and can't be collected in.

Although wc can often adapt easily to captivity, I do think cb is a better choice for the average person. That is because a breeder familiar with their own bloodlines can often predict behavior, possible health problems, or hardiness, and try to match the right snake with the right owner, much like good purebred cat and dog breeders might do.

BUT - there is one reason nobody has mentioned why a wc can at times be preferable. I have heard this discussion among some of the "old timers" numerous times the last few years. In recent years, the cb market, with its morphs and "investments" (more in boas and pythons, but corns to some extent too) has changed the way many young people enter into the hobby. When I was a child, most newbies caught their first few reptiles in the wild, often learning much about the habits and environment it came from during the experience. We were amazed by its natural beauty, behavior, and the way it lived in its environment. Many times, kids would be allowed to keep it only for the summer, and have to release it where they found by fall. Then they might catch a new one next spring. It did foster a differnt kind of attitude. Now, many kids (or other new owners) only want to know how big the plastic box should be, and what is the hot new morph that will sell the best. I am certainly not against this - it is how I make my living, lol! But the disappearance of the "old ways" is sad, somehow. I am personally very happy to have a full palette of colors to "paint" my corns with, and I was never much of a hunter anyway. But I surely can't decry the person who goes out into their habitat, learns more about them there than most of us breeders will ever learn from plastic boxes, and keeps their small collection (not thousands for sale, I don't care much for that myself) for their own enjoyment. Of course, I am assuming that they did not have to break laws or destroy populations or habitat to collect them. And unless they happened to find them in their own backyard, I can almost guarantee that those who hunt only for their personal collection will spend more to catch them than they would have to just buy one at a show!

Sorry - I know it is almost a whole book, but it was a really long thread and very thought provoking.
 
kathylove said:
I didn't stumble upon it until just now. Guess I have to put in my 2 cents worth - well maybe more like $20 worth, lol!

Personally, I only want wc in my collection for new bloodlines or new mutations. I only have 1 wc now - he has a little white patch on his neck. I do plan to catch some wc from the locale of the original bloodreds to see if they have the ability to deepen the red on our cb line.

That said, lots of posters made some good points, pro and con. I like to try to think about it from a logical / biological standpoint rather than on an emotional level. Some thoughts I have to agree with from previous posts, such as: in my experience and observations, corns are not social enough or mentally equipped to really appreciate our concept of freedom, and probably prefer secure and well fed to free. Of course nobody can read their minds, but we can only guess based on observation, and as mentioned before, what is already known about brains and mental /emotional ability in humans or other higher animals.

In most areas where corns are commonly collected, they are found in artificially large numbers because of agricultural use of the environment. Corns, like rats and mice, seem to do unusually well in those semi developed areas. They are actually quite plentiful in some of the more densely inhabited areas of the Florida Keys - we saw them under paper plates and trash right in the weedy area next to the road! So collecting pressure is unlikely to be a threat to most populations, although there are still areas where they are protected for various reasons and can't be collected in.

Although wc can often adapt easily to captivity, I do think cb is a better choice for the average person. That is because a breeder familiar with their own bloodlines can often predict behavior, possible health problems, or hardiness, and try to match the right snake with the right owner, much like good purebred cat and dog breeders might do.

BUT - there is one reason nobody has mentioned why a wc can at times be preferable. I have heard this discussion among some of the "old timers" numerous times the last few years. In recent years, the cb market, with its morphs and "investments" (more in boas and pythons, but corns to some extent too) has changed the way many young people enter into the hobby. When I was a child, most newbies caught their first few reptiles in the wild, often learning much about the habits and environment it came from during the experience. We were amazed by its natural beauty, behavior, and the way it lived in its environment. Many times, kids would be allowed to keep it only for the summer, and have to release it where they found by fall. Then they might catch a new one next spring. It did foster a differnt kind of attitude. Now, many kids (or other new owners) only want to know how big the plastic box should be, and what is the hot new morph that will sell the best. I am certainly not against this - it is how I make my living, lol! But the disappearance of the "old ways" is sad, somehow. I am personally very happy to have a full palette of colors to "paint" my corns with, and I was never much of a hunter anyway. But I surely can't decry the person who goes out into their habitat, learns more about them there than most of us breeders will ever learn from plastic boxes, and keeps their small collection (not thousands for sale, I don't care much for that myself) for their own enjoyment. Of course, I am assuming that they did not have to break laws or destroy populations or habitat to collect them. And unless they happened to find them in their own backyard, I can almost guarantee that those who hunt only for their personal collection will spend more to catch them than they would have to just buy one at a show!

Sorry - I know it is almost a whole book, but it was a really long thread and very thought provoking.


Always good to see your input on these threads, Kathy, whether it be one sentence or a big book :)
 
Not a slight on anyone here, but you guys do realize that "Itsnowingcorns" is 14, right?

You're not going to change his mind--and I think it's pretty pointless to even try.

Sorry but what does this have to do with anything.....?
Also 'he' is a she ;)

Edit: Also it was not me who said the US had an overflow.
 
Itsnowingcorns said:
Sorry but what does this have to do with anything.....?
Also 'he' is a she ;)

Edit: Also it was not me who said the US had an overflow.

I agree... I don't think age has much to do with anything here. If you take a look at her other posts, she goes at things with more maturity than most others her age on this forum, so give her credit for that at least...
 
Or even others twice her age or more for that matter.

Whether or not I agree with their position, I respect the effort to produce well thought-out, well-written postings. I had begun to wonder if the school systems stopped teaching punctuation, grammar, and spelling. :D

As to my opinion on the WC frontier, I think my ideals probably align the most with Kathy's thoughts. I've never taken a corn out of the wild (don't live in the area, so it's not even a choice), but I do feel that occasional new blood for the gene pool doesn't hurt anything, especially with a goal (such as producing deeper darker bloodreds). I don't condone raping the land of all corndom, but as was said before, the education gained from going out herping far exceeds the loss of a corn or two from the wild population, especially if some are released back in its place.
 
Hurley said:
Whether or not I agree with their position, I respect the effort to produce well thought-out, well-written postings. I had begun to wonder if the school systems stopped teaching punctuation, grammar, and spelling. :D
Haha, yeah but remember she's in the UK too. I'm pretty sure that they have stopped teaching it over here. :laugh:
 
TrpnBils said:
Haha, yeah but remember she's in the UK too. I'm pretty sure that they have stopped teaching it over here. :laugh:

LOL, when you've all finished discussing me, I'd like to know what being in the UK has to do with it too...
 
Snowing, just take it as a compliment that you can construct an arguement and spell competently to boot at your age! And BTW, I'm not being patronising here. When you look at the atrocious spelling and grammar from many members of the forum in their teens who use the excuse that they're just 'a kid' and that's why they can't spell...they really don't have any excuse other than laziness.

I might risk adding my opinion on this subject and risk offending 50% of the people onthis forum now.

I've read and thoroughly enjoyed this lively debate and would like to ad that I'm FOR collecting a small, controlled number of individual animals to improve current captive bloodlines but I'm AGAINST the mass collection of any animal from the wild for financial gain to the collector.

If a number of interesting individuals (such as the Yellow Okeetee) are collected and bred in captivity in order to introduce a new morph and some new blood into the CB market with some of the resulting offspring being released to allow for the wild propagation of the type, then that's fine by me...but...the mass collection of snakes that are then sold to petshops is a no-no in my book.

My 2 cents!!!!
 
An 18 year old just posted this atrocity :

'do al corn snakes tern there eyes blue when in shead mode'

Unbelievable

Do all corn snakes turn their eyes blue when in shed mode

On top of that there was no capital at the beginning and no '?' at the end.

...and they're 18 :headbang:
 
Like I said, it wasn't a slight on her in the least.

I just wanted to point out two things with that post. A) She's 14, and B) She's probably never had the chance to go outside and collect snakes, especially corns.

When you add those two together, especially the last one, you can understand why her point is what it is regarding taking snakes from the wild and putting them into captivity.

The age issue has nothing to do with being able to spell correctly, but god knows some people need some serious help with being able to type words out and spell them correctly, I was just using that for a combo of the argument about never catching a corn in the wild, perhaps even a snake for that matter.

Whole point is, there's nothing wrong with taking a few corns from the wild to strengten your bloodlines. When you've got mass collections--that's a different story, but I just dont picture that happening with corns especially since there's so many corns available as it is---WC corns just arent going to fetch any decent amount of money unless there's something bizarre about them.
 
I'm going European Viper hunting this summer!

But we'll just catch them, put them in a bucket, take a few photos and then let them go where we found them. In the west of Denmark in April-May, you can't go for a 30 min walk in a scrubby area without falling over a handful of them.
The friend who's taking me has studdied in Florida and had some brilliant field herping days there...we have nothing like that kind of variety in Scandinavia. I'm from Australia and miss being able to go off into the bush and see the animals...on the downside, my horse was terrified of kangaroos and I have a cracked skull, chipped teeth and a broken finger as a legacy!
 
Well I can't have ever gone snake hunting because I live in the UK. Also I would be a complete hyocrite if I did..... Rather than just a minor scale hypocrite ;)
 
I would be a complete hypocrite if I did
No you wouldn't, as long as you left them there you would still be able to stand behind your morals of not collecting animals, viewing is one thing, taking is another. I completely agree with Kathy on this, I could have put into words any better myself. I spend 5+ hours in the field every week, mostly observation but I may collect a snake or two if I do not have one already, I would never collect for my own gain and there isn't much market anyways. I don't know who it was that said a herper spends alot more time in the field than it would really be worth to make money and I have to agree, going through the terrain in some ares and actually looking not just collecting for hours isn't really worth the small amount of money and problems you go through. Friday two weeks ago I was walking through the fields looking for good flipping areas to find some snake and I walked through a few spider webs, thinking nothing of it like I normally do just walking along and all the sudden I felt a sharp pain, I looked down and I had been bitten by an small spider species that I couldn't fully identify, I spent 2 days in the hospital and many more hours of pain do to this bite not to mention missing valuable school work for a few days, it definitely wasn't worth my time and money with that bite just to make a few bucks and I collect and go in the field only for pleasure.
 
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