2 corns in one viv

I have seen reference to one recent study which found that snakes have more social life than has hitherto been thought. I will try and track it down.

it may not be emotional, but i do believe they benefit from each other's company. when an anxious snake can be calmed by another (familiar) snake's presence, it is hard for me to dispell this observation as a fluke.. just because some scientists in a lab say otherwise.

however, i think we know from how many times this topic has come up that we will all never agree on one answer to the "two snakes in one viv" question.

i would like to see the studies mentioned in the past two posts, though.

I found the papers I referred to through a scientific paper database called edina. you have to be a member to get access but I'll see if I can get the abstract copied and post them (I doubt I'll be able to post the whole paper for copyright issues but we'll see)

Well the issue whether snakes "like" company I think will be hard to proove. But I think it is far more important to offer the snake a good habitat. IMHO it is not as bad to keep two snakes in a large viv than one snake in a small box. Take the plastic containers for example. the ones where you can have five or ten "drawers" in a row and a snake in each of them. Talking about animal welfare in that respect is more a point to stress. I think if the viv is large enough having two snakes in it will not be so bad.

@ Rachel

I do however see the point about what can go wrong. Especially if you place a new snake in a viv with already a snake present without a sufficient quarantine.

However if it is prooven that snakes are unable to feel emotional bindings, which I think might be the case, they cannot have emotional dislikes either. So whats the odds?

Acradon

It's interesting to note that Kathy & Bill Love's Corn Snake Manual (our bible!), whilst outlining some of the risks of keeping Corns together, doesn't specifically caution against doing this ("Number of Snakes Per Enclosure" section in the "Basic Caging Requirements" chapter). Instead it advises on how to minimise the risks associated with doing this.

I'm sure if it was that critical a point, then Kathy and Bill would have put some sort of clear statement in the book, to the effect that housing more than one Corn per viv is dangerous. There's no way they'd wish to see keepers exposing their animals to the level of risk that seems to have been identified in this thread.

Is it possible that later editions of the Manual have this? My copy has a publication date of 2000.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040327/bob8.asp

article about maternal behaviour in vipers and rattlesnakes.

"enjoy each other's company?"
"snake calmed by another?"
"curled up together" (lovingly, I'm sure)
"no emotional dislikes, either" (who said emotional?)

People, listen. It certainly isn't on the husbandry "no-no list" up there with never changing substrate, but we ARE talking about reptiles here. Yes many herps have a built in instinct to protect their clutch of eggs, and our observations are most easily put into human terms. Wrongly, in my opinion, but understandable. If two snakes are curled up together, the hide or habitat was what they both sought out. As for the statement that it's better to keep two in a large viv than one in a small box, rubbish. As long as that small box is kept clean, I assure you a cornsnake would "prefer" the small box. If they had water, food and mates come to them in the wild, they'd seldom move.

The way I'm interpreting The Corn Snake Manual, it says that there are risks involved with keeping more than one Corn per viv, but these are acceptable if minimised and it's essentially a matter of choice for the keeper. Views anybody? Is anyone reading that text differently?

To be honest Chip, I'm not really convinced by your statement that a Corn would "prefer" to live in a small box by itself than in a large viv with another Corn. How would you support that? I don't think we have proof either way do we? Can you quote some examples of snakes living solo in small vivs who have thrived and pairs/trios in large vivs that haven't?

David, I agree that some herps are defensive of their eggs, but Corns aren't and I that's really what we're talking about. Let's not muddy the waters here.

the article I posted describes rather more "maternal" behaviour than defending eggs. To my mind it casts at least some doubt on the usual mantra that snakes don't have a limbic system and therefore can't experience any emotions. But there is little evidence either way.

Here is my rationale. I have "known" a wild corn in my Dad's barn that was almost always under the same piece of plywood. Even though I disturbed him many times, unless it was cool, he/she was nearly always there in warm months. Given ample food supply, they tend to be ambush feeders and wait for food to pass them by. Likewise, in a 6 foot vision cage, you will find your corn under the same hide all the time. Exceptions being breeding season or when hungry.
As someone who hunts for them every year, I very, very seldom see them out in daylight crawling around. Things that are red don't live long exposing themselves in the light of day. And they lay low at night if there is a meal in their belly. Look at your viv at night and notice when the snake ventures out of it's hide. See how many days after feeding this is. I think you will draw the same conclusion.
Without question, you theoretically can keep 100 corns healthy in a huge enclosure if you choose to do a lot of work. Disease is a much higher risk, and even if fed separately, the issue of never knowing who regurged, etc. is an issue you will never face housing individually. For that matter a hungry corn would probably eat that regurge and leave the keeper with no evidence. I'm not as adamant about it as many, I just see no benefit to housing together but do see risks. My two cents, not trying to chastize anyone else's husbandry. The whole "is my snake lonely" thing does get to me though!