Feeding live to F/T babies ??

Originally Posted by beautifullywild77

Alpine, in my opinion you started this thread just to argue your point. Sadly, its been done a million times on this forum and many other forums. Search button again is a nifty lil feature that could of avoided this. You said it yourself, You KNEW this was going to start a flame war. So instead of doing a tiny bit of research yourself you started the thread knowing full well what kind of reaction you would get... nuff said!

The whole reason I join forums is to expand my knowledge of a subject. To do this, I search threads or post my own if I have questions that aren't answered. When people join forums they are looking to get a general understanding of the subject from a community of people who partake in what I'm looking for. When I posted this thread, I had a serious question and was looking for an answer. Instead of people coming in and saying "I don't agree, but that's also another way to do it", I was confronted with "it's wrong, you're a murderer, karma goes a long way." What kind of example is this supposed to set if I was a new member? I'd sign off and never come back to this forum if I wasn't used to this crap.

From my understanding in the 20+ forums I've been a part of if you post something and people don't agree with it, you're just going to get slammed by a group of people who agree with the same thing and are going to make you feel like until you agree with them. Similar to what happened here. People are going to gang up, say what they have to say, agree with only those who agree with them, and then will soak in their accomplishments by doing giving rep or wanting rep to give. It's nice that there are people like Carinata. Might not agree 100% with the live feeding, but totally accepts it and doesn't bash because it's not what they do.

I'm really disappointed in the responses I received in this thread. I thought people could be mature and give me the answer I was looking for (which I eventually got), instead I have 3 pages of people bashing on me, ridiculing me, and me defending my own personal opinions.

I hope you keep asking questions on this forum...
I know that some of us get very enthusiastic about some subjects... sometimes because of our history of losing an animal.

But... there is lots of good info to be had.

Even if you could guarantee, 100%, that a snake would never suffer an injury from live feeding, live feeding is still cruel to the prey animal.

Originally Posted by alpine

The whole reason I join forums is to expand my knowledge of a subject. To do this, I search threads or post my own if I have questions that aren't answered. When people join forums they are looking to get a general understanding of the subject from a community of people who partake in what I'm looking for. When I posted this thread, I had a serious question and was looking for an answer. Instead of people coming in and saying "I don't agree, but that's also another way to do it", I was confronted with "it's wrong, you're a murderer, karma goes a long way." What kind of example is this supposed to set if I was a new member? I'd sign off and never come back to this forum if I wasn't used to this crap.

From my understanding in the 20+ forums I've been a part of if you post something and people don't agree with it, you're just going to get slammed by a group of people who agree with the same thing and are going to make you feel like until you agree with them. Similar to what happened here. People are going to gang up, say what they have to say, agree with only those who agree with them, and then will soak in their accomplishments by doing giving rep or wanting rep to give. It's nice that there are people like Carinata. Might not agree 100% with the live feeding, but totally accepts it and doesn't bash because it's not what they do.

I'm really disappointed in the responses I received in this thread. I thought people could be mature and give me the answer I was looking for (which I eventually got), instead I have 3 pages of people bashing on me, ridiculing me, and me defending my own personal opinions.

For one thing, Carinata works with ball pythons. Not the same thing. For another thing, you started this thread knowing full well what the folks here were going to say. We are NOT going to hold your little hand and tell you what you want to hear. Not gonna happen.

FACT your snake could lose an eye or be badly bitten. (You don't care)
FACT There are numerous ways around this issue, either f/t or humanely killing the mice first. (Again you don't care).

Not quite sure what you came here to learn.
Seems you just wanted to fling poo.

Originally Posted by Nanci

Even if you could guarantee, 100%, that a snake would never suffer an injury from live feeding, live feeding is still cruel to the prey animal.

Sometime it's hard to read the simple fine print!!

Alpine, I posted the main reasoning why I do not feed live. I understand when there is a reason to, but again. You really have no reason to. Your snakes readily take F/T, yet you feed live because someone at the vet clinic told you it was a good idea. (correct me if I am wrong.)

It has been my experience that Veterinarians and those who work in Vet clinics, do not know all there is to know about various species. Heck, Darwin spent his adult life studying many different species of animals, and he only scratched the surface of what they do, why they do it, and how they got there.

To pin all of your actions on the words of one person that you work with, instead of accepting the answers that a community of people, who not only consists of Vet techs, but some of the people who have been around since the beginning of the trade, shows that you really just came here for one of 2 things. 1, to start things. 2, to look for the one or two people who agree with what you are doing.

Having not gotten a response to my earlier post, I do not expect one to this either. I even posted a picture of Gypsy, who was injured before I got her. Because the previous owner fed live, and the picture also shows a small injury on the top of her head when I fed her live once. That happened in a split second, I could do nothing about it, but you can see the small scab on her head. If the mouse would have gotten lucky it could have killed her.

Originally Posted by starsevol

For one thing, Carinata works with ball pythons. Not the same thing. For another thing, you started this thread knowing full well what the folks here were going to say. We are NOT going to hold your little hand and tell you what you want to hear. Not gonna happen.

FACT your snake could lose an eye or be badly bitten. (You don't care)
FACT There are numerous ways around this issue, either f/t or humanely killing the mice first. (Again you don't care).

Not quite sure what you came here to learn.
Seems you just wanted to fling poo.

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall obviously. Nothing anyone says is going to get through to you. You're so biased on you're own opinion you're not even going to try to let anyone else opinion by you so what's the point?

I still can't believe I have to defend myself over this topic. I have so much to say, but there's no point in typing it all because you're just going to tell me I'm "wrong" and just repeat the same thing you've been saying. I've typed everything I wanted to say while making this post and just deleted it all because there's no point. Shame on me for doing something millions of people do and for letting my snake kill and it's food the natural way

And as I'm typing this my Lorax just finished up with her meal today. She seems quite satisfied, but I'm starting to feel bad because if it weren't for me that mouse would have been trapped in a box with 30+ of it's brothers and sisters and been gassed to death. Sounds like a mouse holocaust to me, but I'm not knocking on it..

In case you were wondering Bethany, Lorax still has both eyes. I'll keep you updated on that in the future because you seem pretty focused on my snake getting it's eyes bit out. Almost seems like you want it to happen just so I can be "taught my lesson".

I came here to learn what I asked and thanks to maybe 2-3 people I got what I was looking for. I asked a question you didn't like so keep referring to it as poo flinging.

Originally Posted by alpine

I still can't believe I have to defend myself over this topic. I have so much to say, but there's no point in typing it all because you're just going to tell me I'm "wrong" and just repeat the same thing you've been saying. I've typed everything I wanted to say while making this post and just deleted it all because there's no point. Shame on me for doing something millions of people do and for letting my snake kill and it's food the natural way

You're defending the fact that you're basically torturing mice. Tell me what is natural about putting a snake and a mouse in a box together where neither one can escape the other? (box being cage, feeding tub, room, etc) Just because millions of people do it does not make it right, and the fact that someone at a vets office told you feeding live was better just shows the ignorance that most vets have to reptiles. Vets DO NOT learn about reptiles in their courses, they have to do additional training for it, and any vet who says that feeding live is a good idea is not a credible reptile vet.

Originally Posted by alpine

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall obviously. Nothing anyone says is going to get through to you. You're so biased on you're own opinion you're not even going to try to let anyone else opinion by you so what's the point?

I still can't believe I have to defend myself over this topic. I have so much to say, but there's no point in typing it all because you're just going to tell me I'm "wrong" and just repeat the same thing you've been saying. I've typed everything I wanted to say while making this post and just deleted it all because there's no point. Shame on me for doing something millions of people do and for letting my snake kill and it's food the natural way

And as I'm typing this my Lorax just finished up with her meal today. She seems quite satisfied, but I'm starting to feel bad because if it weren't for me that mouse would have been trapped in a box with 30+ of it's brothers and sisters and been gassed to death. Sounds like a mouse holocaust to me, but I'm not knocking on it..

In case you were wondering Bethany, Lorax still has both eyes. I'll keep you updated on that in the future because you seem pretty focused on my snake getting it's eyes bit out. Almost seems like you want it to happen just so I can be "taught my lesson".

I came here to learn what I asked and thanks to maybe 2-3 people I got what I was looking for. I asked a question you didn't like so keep referring to it as poo flinging.

GEEZ, you act like I am the ONLY one who thinks you are not doing what's right for your snake. Please read what EVERYBODY ELSE has to say in this thread.

Originally Posted by Outcast

Alpine, your scenario with the fresh steak vs the frozen one would only be relevant if you were speaking of Pre-Killed vs. Frozen/thawed.

The scenario that you should really be looking at is, If you eat deer meat. Lets say that I place you in a cage with a live deer, generally in the wild the deer would either run off, or chase you up a tree. But, in a cage, the deer, if cornered would tear you up and possibly kill you. It is completely possible for snakes to escape if things go bad in the wild, but in a cage, no matter how close you watch, bad things can happen. Look up Murphy's Law. Eventually things go wrong.

I hope that I showed you how messed up your tired scenario was, because I have heard it used many times before. I have also hears "Its more natural", but it is not natural to cage an animal in a 1foot by 2 foot cage and throw a potentially dangerous animal in there with them, It is called Thunderdome, and they made a movie about it with Mel Gibson and Tina Turner. Two enter, One leaves. Sometimes the Champ gets killed or terribly injured.

Oh, and even in the wild, the prey sometimes kills the predator.

Also, This is why I do not feed live. This is my snake, she was fed live her whole life by a guy in the German AF in Alamogordo NM. He gave her to a friend who turned her over to one of the pet stores where I got her. This is her Live Feeding Injury, that I am surprised did not take her life. She was very lucky.

Originally Posted by Outcast

If you look at the head of my snake, The brown on the top of her nose was from the one live feeding that I did. The mouse immediately turned around and bit her. It does not take "long periods" this was in the blink of an eye. Yes the longer a live mouse is in with the animal, the more risk you are taking, but you take that risk once you put the mouse in the cage.

Originally Posted by Outcast

Alpine, I posted the main reasoning why I do not feed live. I understand when there is a reason to, but again. You really have no reason to. Your snakes readily take F/T, yet you feed live because someone at the vet clinic told you it was a good idea. (correct me if I am wrong.)

It has been my experience that Veterinarians and those who work in Vet clinics, do not know all there is to know about various species. Heck, Darwin spent his adult life studying many different species of animals, and he only scratched the surface of what they do, why they do it, and how they got there.

To pin all of your actions on the words of one person that you work with, instead of accepting the answers that a community of people, who not only consists of Vet techs, but some of the people who have been around since the beginning of the trade, shows that you really just came here for one of 2 things. 1, to start things. 2, to look for the one or two people who agree with what you are doing.

Having not gotten a response to my earlier post, I do not expect one to this either. I even posted a picture of Gypsy, who was injured before I got her. Because the previous owner fed live, and the picture also shows a small injury on the top of her head when I fed her live once. That happened in a split second, I could do nothing about it, but you can see the small scab on her head. If the mouse would have gotten lucky it could have killed her.

I tend to agree!!
Hope he doing well.