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i need some advice help :(

DarkSmoke

Did you move him up to a larger mouse than what you were feeding him when he was on the regurge protocol? If so then I would suggest going right back to the start of the regurge protocol and taking it slower this time.

If you were still following the regurge protocol AND you have gotten the thermometer and Thermostat/rheostat as your were advised to a long time ago AND you have been regularly checking the temps AND know with out a doubt that the warm side is no lower than 80 and no higher than 85 and the cool side is generally 70-75 THEN after this many regurges I would suggest a possible visit to a qualified reptile vet to see if there is another issue causing the repeat regurges.

This of course is just my opinion and what I would be doing at this point. Sorry to hear it happened again and good luck.
 
no my temps aint much good but not much bad at the moment. he has a variety of temps on the warm side ranging from 85 to 91 and the hide is on the 85 part but even my other snake is like this and she never gave me a bit of trouble. tough im really concerned this time since people here say that if the snake doesn regurg after 4days the mouse would rot in his stomach and kill him and its been 7days from the last feeding. im starting to think that this snake is hopeless, right now i can't afford a vet neither more heathmats and a thermostat. i should afford a thermostat in 2weeks.

i changed home and money is a bit of and issue for now. but still what continues going around in my mind is why my ball python never had an issue and yet she doesn't have perfect temps neither but she's always happy and relax , eats as a charm. yet i was told it was suppose that ball pythons give trouble. both petshops i know that are the 2 most petshops that sell snakes in malta keep their snakes on one UTH (they don't care what their cool side temps are) and only one of the shop uses thermostats. they both doesn't have any issues with their snakes and they don't even provide hideouts to their snakes. yet my snake has hideouts and is kept clean and in good condition other then some temps issues and he's always regurging. even in summer when in malta was hot and their was no need for a UTH he regurged. And i only heard of 1 vet that sees snakes in malta and im really scared to take it to him since i don't know how much qualified he is and don't want to spend money for nothing or end up giving me some bad advice :S
 
I understand your money situation with having just moved and you concern over there only being one choice of vet for snakes in Malta.

To me the biggest problem I can guess with out being there is the up down temp in the warm side. With out consistent temps in a safe range you are going to have regurge problems. Your pet stores may tell you they have no problems BUT unless you are in there every day and on feeding days and have taken pics of the head markings so that you know exactly which snake you are looking at each time, you can never really know for sure what is happening in the pet store.

They could be offering food and the snake could be refusing, they could offer and the snake could eat and regurge, it could regurge off and on like yours has, the snake may die and be replace with a similar looking snake and they don't mention it as it is not good for business. The reason I suggested a vet is because often, not all the time, pet store reptiles are not cared for properly and become sickly before they are sold. Hopefully this is not the case with your snake.

If his warm side is getting as high as 91 that will easily cause a regurge, or cause the snake to stay on the cool side a lot even when it should be digesting and that as well may cause a regurge, esp after so long, no heat means longer to digest, to long to digest means regurge.

You have two priorities right now with regards to your snake.
1) get him back on regurge protocol and follow very strictly(see below)
2) save money get a thermometer(if you do not have a digital one) and get either a rheostat or a thermostat, and save for a possible vet trip

Put him back to the begining of regurge protocol and be VERY VERY diligent about not moving up in sizes until he has kept down at least 6 meals of each small size.

So wait 10 days! Feed a pinkie then wait 7 days to feed the next pinkie. After he has kept down 6 pinkie meals with no problems move to 2 pinkies, still 7 days apart. He is in a danger zone right now, so you need to go very slow!! After 6 meals of 2 pinkies, then move to 6 meals of fuzzies, spaced 7 days apart, then 6 meals of hoppers, 7 days apart but if he regurges during any stage of this again, start over and really consider the vet trip.... his life may depend on it.

EDIT: ORDER some NutriBac from Kathy Love's website, it will do wonders to help restore the natural balance in his stomach and enable him to start digesting properly again. This is the exact page on her site where she adveretises the NutriBac. http://www.corn-utopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/-%20TOOLS%20PRODUCTS%20herp%20Cornutopia%20corn%20snakes%20cornsnakes.htm
 
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im gonna restart the regurg protocol , but i don't think this is the case of bad temps. im not trying to arguing with anyone who says this. but a nearly 2year old corn snake wich is still the size of a 6month corn snake and is always regurging. i think this snake was sick before it was sold to me, why ? because the day i got him he regurged. i tought this was because the petshop fed him before he sold him to me, tough i didn't see any bulge when i got him so im starting to think he had just a sick snake that he wanted to sell.

the petshop that sold it to me was a corn snake breeder and he used the same UTH as mine (wich have a variaty of temp range instead of one temp all over the surface) now this petshop is not open anymore, that was the last corn from 08 then he had 09 babies. so i bought the last 09 baby and i think that it was sick. but well maybe im wrong but i seriously doubt this is just a normal tempreture issue. iv done the protocol 2 times now , always doing those small feedings thats why im in high doubt.
 
Back at the start of this thread after the first regurge (21st November), you were given lots of advice. Much of it involved following the regurge protocol and then feeding very small food items - pinkies - for months, before trying to increase the food size.

And yet here we are, less than two months later, and you're surprised that your snake can't keep a small mouse down.

He shouldn't be eating small mice yet. He should still be on pinkies.

You'e been given such good advice, repeatedly. I understand that money is difficult, the proper supplies are hard to come by in your location and that knowledgable reptile vets are rare. But there's so much more you could be doing to help your snake.

I'm so sorry to be blunt - you know that I've been very supportive of you both on the board and via PM. But you're killing that Corn Snake and it's mainly to do with incorrect temps and feeding it too large food items, too often, and too soon after previous regurges.

You can at least have complete control over the feeding aspect. Please, please, exercise it.
 
bitsy said:
Back at the start of this thread after the first regurge (21st November), you were given lots of advice. Much of it involved following the regurge protocol and then feeding very small food items - pinkies - for months, before trying to increase the food size.

And yet here we are, less than two months later, and you're surprised that your snake can't keep a small mouse down.

He shouldn't be eating small mice yet. He should still be on pinkies.

You'e been given such good advice, repeatedly. I understand that money is difficult, the proper supplies are hard to come by in your location and that knowledgable reptile vets are rare. But there's so much more you could be doing to help your snake.

I'm so sorry to be blunt - you know that I've been very supportive of you both on the board and via PM. But you're killing that Corn Snake and it's mainly to do with incorrect temps and feeding it too large food items, too often, and too soon after previous regurges.

You can at least have complete control over the feeding aspect. Please, please, exercise it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Please stick to the regurge protocol properly to give that poor snake a chance.
 
bitsy said:
Back at the start of this thread after the first regurge (21st November), you were given lots of advice. Much of it involved following the regurge protocol and then feeding very small food items - pinkies - for months, before trying to increase the food size.

And yet here we are, less than two months later, and you're surprised that your snake can't keep a small mouse down.

He shouldn't be eating small mice yet. He should still be on pinkies.

You'e been given such good advice, repeatedly. I understand that money is difficult, the proper supplies are hard to come by in your location and that knowledgable reptile vets are rare. But there's so much more you could be doing to help your snake.

I'm so sorry to be blunt - you know that I've been very supportive of you both on the board and via PM. But you're killing that Corn Snake and it's mainly to do with incorrect temps and feeding it too large food items, too often, and too soon after previous regurges.

You can at least have complete control over the feeding aspect. Please, please, exercise it.
Click to expand...
No sorry , By small mice i mean pinkies. again sorry if i was misunderstood. i never went larger then a pinky in these whole 2months , if i went to a larger mouse i would have said i went to a larger mouse.

And yes i know how supportive you have been and im very gratefull to that and i do have control on his food size. it doesn't make sense increasizing to a "mouse instead of pinky" when i was adviced by the whole board not to do so, and the pinkies are the only mouse the size of my corn in diametre.

i think the biggest mistake i ever done in my life was buying the corn snake from malta and at the age of 1 year 6months without doing more research before and learn what size the corn should have been at that age. im not disapointed tough for buying my ball python from malta since its a super good snake without no hassle at all. buy my next will sure NOT be bought from here.
 
I also think your mistake is in buying a snake you cannot afford to buy the proper equipment for. Without accurate temperature control your snake is not thriving at all.
 
i know. if i knew i needed all this equipment i would have bought it first before buying any snake. but try to understand me, i went to a shop , i saw how much the corn snakes were cheap before i ever new that a forum about corns/snake existed and when i saw the snake i asked the pet shop owner what i needed to own him, his answer was a vivarium, bedding, water bowl and a UTH for winter and a mouse the apropriate size a week. he made it that simple and didnt mention no thermostats and other problems im encountering. i know its still my fault and i admit it , but when it was that cheap and i only needed the things he mentioned i lost my mind and bought it.

also anyone pls know if a pinky mouse will survive by feeding him milk and and keep him warm? i read on the net its possible, anything else i need to do to him? sry for jumping out of topic.
 
For the mouse, yes it is possible but without the right sort of milk (from a vet, special powdered replacement milk) and care (stimulating it to defacate, otherwise the guts will be blocked) it will suffer and die, so killing and freezing it for your snake could be kinder in the end.
You are very brave to admit you have made mistakes, many people wouldn't. Try to get a thermostat for controlling your heating issues, it really is important for your snake. Maybe your snake isn't as strong as others that would be ok in this situation, but that means your snake needs the best conditions you can give so it has a chance.
 
Asbit said:
I understand your money situation with having just moved and you concern over there only being one choice of vet for snakes in Malta.

To me the biggest problem I can guess with out being there is the up down temp in the warm side. With out consistent temps in a safe range you are going to have regurge problems. Your pet stores may tell you they have no problems BUT unless you are in there every day and on feeding days and have taken pics of the head markings so that you know exactly which snake you are looking at each time, you can never really know for sure what is happening in the pet store.

They could be offering food and the snake could be refusing, they could offer and the snake could eat and regurge, it could regurge off and on like yours has, the snake may die and be replace with a similar looking snake and they don't mention it as it is not good for business. The reason I suggested a vet is because often, not all the time, pet store reptiles are not cared for properly and become sickly before they are sold. Hopefully this is not the case with your snake.

If his warm side is getting as high as 91 that will easily cause a regurge, or cause the snake to stay on the cool side a lot even when it should be digesting and that as well may cause a regurge, esp after so long, no heat means longer to digest, to long to digest means regurge.

You have two priorities right now with regards to your snake.
1) get him back on regurge protocol and follow very strictly(see below)
2) save money get a thermometer(if you do not have a digital one) and get either a rheostat or a thermostat, and save for a possible vet trip

Put him back to the begining of regurge protocol and be VERY VERY diligent about not moving up in sizes until he has kept down at least 6 meals of each small size.

So wait 10 days! Feed a pinkie then wait 7 days to feed the next pinkie. After he has kept down 6 pinkie meals with no problems move to 2 pinkies, still 7 days apart. He is in a danger zone right now, so you need to go very slow!! After 6 meals of 2 pinkies, then move to 6 meals of fuzzies, spaced 7 days apart, then 6 meals of hoppers, 7 days apart but if he regurges during any stage of this again, start over and really consider the vet trip.... his life may depend on it.

EDIT: ORDER some NutriBac from Kathy Love's website, it will do wonders to help restore the natural balance in his stomach and enable him to start digesting properly again. This is the exact page on her site where she adveretises the NutriBac. http://www.corn-utopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/-%20TOOLS%20PRODUCTS%20herp%20Cornutopia%20corn%20snakes%20cornsnakes.htm
Click to expand...
just a small question since im going with your plan. since i feed live and the petshop have different sized of pinkies , should i pick the smalles pinkies?
 
Yes you definitely need the smallest size of pinkies because this snake has had so many regurges. May I ask again why you feed live and not frozen thawed??
 
Asbit said:
Yes you definitely need the smallest size of pinkies because this snake has had so many regurges. May I ask again why you feed live and not frozen thawed??
Click to expand...
ok. probably this thread is gonna change again to people telling me the 100benefits of feed f/t or how cruel i am but im gonna answer you anyway.
1. my snakes never gave me reason not to , they kill and eat instantly especially my ball python.
2. i love to see how they hunt their prey and and eat it.
3. i don't know in america and in other countries , but here i was grown in a country whenever a mouse is seen in the streets or in a home there's a lot of shouting and the next thing the mouse is dead by someone who's not scared of them so i never heared concerned people on mouse being hurt.

no more points come in my mind other then those , i watch my snakes every second while they eat so in case of an emergancy i throw the mouse out. Literaly. it requres less work, its more intresting to see and yeah i don't believe in less and more pains since humans don't even know if a lobster is hurt while boiled alive.
 
If you can find a litter of 'reds' (day-old mice, around 1g) I'd suggest you buy the whole litter and freeze them for your corn. Then you will know that you can first try 1/2 for the next few feedings. Then if there are no regurges try 1 whole red.
Buying fresh live pinks means you may not find the right size, and for your corn that could make a big difference.
 
Thank you Damondlil, that is exactly why I asked him about his feeding live. I too feel that his snake needs 1/2 of a 1 gram pinkie(red) for at least 2-3 feedings and then if it can keep them down, move to the whole 1 gram pinkie(red). This I feel is crucial at this point for the chances of this snakes survival!!
 
diamondlil said:
If you can find a litter of 'reds' (day-old mice, around 1g) I'd suggest you buy the whole litter and freeze them for your corn. Then you will know that you can first try 1/2 for the next few feedings. Then if there are no regurges try 1 whole red.
Buying fresh live pinks means you may not find the right size, and for your corn that could make a big difference.
Click to expand...

Asbit said:
Thank you Damondlil, that is exactly why I asked him about his feeding live. I too feel that his snake needs 1/2 of a 1 gram pinkie(red) for at least 2-3 feedings and then if it can keep them down, move to the whole 1 gram pinkie(red). This I feel is crucial at this point for the chances of this snakes survival!!
Click to expand...
I agree with diamondlil and Tisha. I have some pretty strong feelings on feeding live and I'd like to say something about your desire to watch it "hunt" and your lack of concern over how the mouse's final moments are spent, but the more important reason against it right now is that your snake simply cannot handle the range of sizes you'll encounter if you buy live. A frozen mouse will stay the same size the entire time you have it... a living one will continue to grow and change.
 
my snake was able to hold down medium sized pinkies ( i will call them since the petshop have about 5differnt sizes of pinkies ) for like 5 - 6 feedings with bed temps and then regurged when i increased the size of the pinky a bit. today i installed the thermostat in his vivarium and setted the temp to 29C (85F) and im gonna re start the regurg protocol with the smallest pinkies instead.

im concerned about something you told me Asbit,
"After 6 meals of 2 pinkies, then move to 6 meals of fuzzies, spaced 7 days apart"
after 6meals of smallest pinkies should i give him 2 smalles pinkies or increas the size of the pinkies? if 2 smallest pinkies should after 6meals of smallest pinkies switch to fuzzies like you said or bigger pinkies ?

today i called the vet, he told me he sees snakes but i have to give him readings of my temps and humidity , so it will be useless to go pay a visit cause i know his answer will be to fix my temps probably. so im retrying the regurg protocol , now with smaller pinkies and good warm side temp and hopefully on the way i hope that i can get enough money to buy a UTH and a thermostat or dimmer for the cool side too so i can get perfect temps on the cool side too. if another regurg happens i'll visit the vet cause now the answer will not be bad temps for sure.
 
There are some advantages to live pinks. Mainly that they can be "re-used" (frozen for later) if refused, and that picky feeders will sometimes take live when they might refuse f/t. The only real disadvantages, as already stated, is that you might have to take whatever you can find in sizes, and you can't feed half a mouse or just a mouse head unless it is dead. Live pinks usually cost more here, in the U.S., too.

In your case, because of the regurges, your snake really does need to eat only half, or just a head. More will probably cause more regurges. You may be approaching the point where you need to feed egg yolk via syringe or eyedropper, with or without NB, for a while, and avoid whole food. Each regurge brings you a little closer to the point of no return, and death.

Since you can't get NB there, you might try some human probiotics from a health food store. It usually comes in a powder, or capsule with powder inside of it. Nobody seems to know how much, if any, probiotics for different species will work (I have asked vets, but they don't know either). But they can't hurt, and MIGHT help.
 
You should be able to get grapefruit seed extract from any health food shop to try a drop to a litre of water and use in the drinking bowl.
 
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