My 4 month old corn wont kill before he eats?

and to answer the question about life and death, i believe that life happens and there's no destiny or whatever. i see a nature as the strongest survive, and no , for me as long as something is killed for food its not cruelty or waste no mather what pain or no pain. killing by hitting the mouse or with gas, hunting animals with guns with one shot, or throwing a live mouse in the pythons vivarium wich will die in 10-30seconds (probably looses consience and feelings even quicker) for me both 3 kind of persons in the end of the day are killers, and avoiding those 10-30seconds to the mouse is not an excuse for being someone better or less cruel. i value life, but i value it over pain. its not the pain that is the most cruel for me, but the thing that that animal had a life in front of him and you decided to end , no mather how much feelings or no he felt the cruel thing is ending someones life. But it must be done, and its unavoidable unless your a vegiterian since we're top of the food chain and we eat anything, at the end of the day , who ever ends a life , is a killer and was cruel .

my point is , yes im 10-30seconds more cruel then you , but that doesn't give you the excuse to threat me like your an angel and im the devil.

btw, yeah i agree , lets have this conversation, tough please if you're gonna try to be funny or trying to see yourself as 90% better then me, its gonna be useless. so try to understand my point and lets continue the conversation on those steps, your talking to a person 10-30seconds better then you, and we're both animal killers, unless you buy them pre-killed.

sorry i meant talking to a perso 10-30seconds worst then you.

Malta is a very small island (which probably is way smaller then a USA city) located in the middle of the mediterenean sea under Sicily (well its far from there).

Currently, i don't work but here in malta they give jobless people money as much as nearly minimum wage (since i live by myself). malta has big job issues many many unemployed people.

I just don't see the point of feeding live UNLESS the snake is going to starve to death otherwise. And I would have tried p/k, brained, tuna-scented, etc, etc before I got to that point.

I watched a little bit of the mouse/rattlesnake Youtube. I could NOT watch the whole thing. I think it would have been really cool to tease feed the rattler with a f/t, then slow motion the strike so I could appreciate the snake. This was just disgusting. The mouse suffers for nothing. I LOVE watching my snakes attack & "kill" their f/t, and I don't think I am missing any part of the experience by feeding f/t. They are acting exactly as their instincts direct them to, and I don't think they miss anything either. I'm not sure they are aware the mouse is f/t.

As far as "respecting life as it is", well, if I were to watch a WILD snake in the wild constrict its prey, or a WILD crotalid envenomate its prey, I WOULD watch in fascination. But that's in the WILD, and in a viv is a whole different thing to me, although I don't consider myself a fluffy bunny at all, nor do I think most others see me as such. In a viv it's just gratuitous suffering, because if the snake is hungry the rodent has NO CHANCE. In the wild the rodent might have a chance, depending on how smart it is, etc.

As for US politics regarding herps, those of us who own & love herps here in the US ARE concerned, and have good reason to be concerned. I think herp owners who live in the EU may also have legitimate concerns about whether animal rights organizations are going to cause problems. For those who are fortunate enough to live in a country that isn't currently facing threats from PETA (an international organization), good for you! But be aware PETA may have herps in YOUR country on their "hit list". Those of us who are facing national laws that are going to make some of our herps potentially illegal, untransportable, etc, are quite concerned about the IMAGE of our fellow herpers on the Interwebz because PETA/HSUS are going to use negative images of herpers from AROUND THE WORLD against US herpers. I think that may be part of why feeding live gets us so upset.

Anyway, I don't think those of us who are against live feeding are going to change our minds, for lots of reasons.

Well I don’t consider myself better than anyone so I don’t think that will enter here.

So if I understand what you said, you don’t have a problem with killing as long as it is for food or to protect yourself or something of that nature? Is that correct? I probably would agree with that. Under those terms I am not opposed to killing.

I try to not cause suffering. But I also understand your point of view, snakes kill in nature and that is not any different than the way your snakes kill. I have no argument with that.

wade said:

Well I don’t consider myself better than anyone so I don’t think that will enter here.

So if I understand what you said, you don’t have a problem with killing as long as it is for food or to protect yourself or something of that nature? Is that correct? I probably would agree with that. Under those terms I am not opposed to killing.

I try to not cause suffering. But I also understand your point of view, snakes kill in nature and that is not any different than the way your snakes kill. I have no argument with that.

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yeah thats what i meant. sorry for the bad english as usual.

I would find living on a small island interesting for a while. I might get bored though. I live in a fairly small city in the desert. I like it. We are having unemployment problems right now too, maybe not as bad as yours though.

What is your first language?

I don’t feed live because I worry that my snakes may be harmed by the mouse. I’ve never had a snake be hurt but I have seen others that have.

Did I read that you caught wild mice or was that someone else that was saying that?

My First language is maltese, i know english and italian too.
I wouldn't feed my snakes live unless they killed their prey quickly and good hunters cause of the damage too. tough i doubt their would be serious damage from and adult mice to a 6-7months python.

How did you learn 3 languages by age 18? I can only speak English. I would like to learn Spanish but it seems like too much work.

Are snake supplies and mice easy to get on Malta? Do you know other people there that raise snakes?

Maltese because its my first language, english in school , italian from television (of course i used to ask mom to translate at the begining cause she learned it at school , we get alot of italian tv stations here, and use to watch it alot). i also used to learn spanish at school, pretty easy once you know italian. tough i forogt nearly everything i learned since it was a borring lesson and stoped school.

mice are easy to get, UTH and things like that too. there other snake owners tough in small quantity. some of them i heard don't even put a heatmath for their snakes, other just put a heatmath whatever the temps are, never heard of someone other then me that is going for perfect temps like people on here.

personally other then the petshops i know of a friend of my girlfriend's brother that has a snake , the brother of a friend of mine, and the one that sold me mice yesterday.

I imagine it is hard when there are not many snake people near you. Where I live it is much easier.

Did you get your questions about the under tank heat mat answered? Have you got that figured out?

Not really, since whenever i try to ask a question i usually get ambushed for asking about the answer i was givin (im the type of guy that wants to know details about the answer i got since im curious about things.)

currently i have an open thread about heating the whole viv with a ceramic heater under the tank to a tempreture without having a warm and cool side in the viv other then the water bowl if you want to give a look.

yes its hard, especially when i go ask the petshop and says hey you just need a heatmath and a cool side nothing more. and then people here tell me you need perfect temps , and im just a beginer and need to do those decisions myself cause both seem to have their good side.

DarkSmoke said:

Not really, since whenever i try to ask a question i usually get ambushed for asking about the answer i was givin (im the type of guy that wants to know details about the answer i got since im curious about things.)

currently i have an open thread about heating the whole viv with a ceramic heater under the tank to a tempreture without having a warm and cool side in the viv other then the water bowl if you want to give a look.

yes its hard, especially when i go ask the petshop and says hey you just need a heatmath and a cool side nothing more. and then people here tell me you need perfect temps , and im just a beginer and need to do those decisions myself cause both seem to have their good side.

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Yeah, you are a beginner all right.

Because of you, every week a mouse suffers pain IT DOES NOT HAVE TO SUFFER.
And a snake risks injury IT DOES NOT HAVE TO.

You have a snake that eats f/t. If you feed f/t it will eat, grow and thrive, and stay safe.
You are NOT doing your job....

I don’t know what you mean by a ceramic heater that goes under the tank. The only kind I have seen goes on top of the tank and kind of shines down.

I think you have been given some bad information somewhere. What you need is a heat mat under the tank at one end that will heat it to around 85 degrees. The other end will just be what ever the room temperature is. That is all you need. The snake can move back and forth to where ever it feels best.

the guy i met yesterday told me its somekind of ceramic plate the size of the viv's bottom which goes in under the viv and throw heat, tough i don't know if it has some other name but aparantly thats what they call them here.

yeah , i was given some bad info but dunno wich of it is good, some here told me you must even warm the cool side cause its bad to have it at room tempreture so i was gonna spend a load of money , aparantly for nothing. but thanks for the help

Hey Seamus, I have enjoyed talking to you. I'm sorry you have had such a hard time here with some of the others. Stick around though, there are good people here who do know the right answers to your questions.

This is the first time I have tried to ignore everyone. It worked pretty good don't you think?

yeah i'd say it did

(Sarcasm)

Wade... You.... I was interested in seeing how the thread was panning out. But, you came in and settled everyone down....
Why!?!

Outcast said:

(Sarcasm)

Wade... You.... I was interested in seeing how the thread was panning out. But, you came in and settled everyone down....
Why!?!

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That's ok Outcast, I am stil riled up.
Nothing i hate more than child predators, live feeders and co habbers...pretty much in that order.....

starsevol said:

That's ok Outcast, I am stil riled up.
Nothing i hate more than child predators, live feeders and co habbers...pretty much in that order.....

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i have a confession. i cohabed Vera and Bandit, before Vera escaped, but i have another tank ready for her once she comes back to me... I realize what i have done wrong and am paying for my evil ways....