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WOOOT BARRACK OBAMA

Nova_C said:
Two sides of the same coin. Look at all the horror stories that came out of Vietnam. Suicide bombers definitely see themselves as soldiers and soldiers are capable of committing atrocities just like the rest of us.

People using God or Country to justify their actions are doing the same thing. If you can rationalize your behavior as being for the 'greater good', whatever that good may be, then you're willing to do just about anything.
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Yep two sides of the same coin. I understand your point and we are spliting hairs. I just don't see a US soldier strapping on a bomb in Iraq, walking into cafe and blowing himself up to kill 20 people. That to me is an emotional and thus less stable decision.

Atrocities are commited in all wars for sure. Some in Vietnam commited atrocities, but were probably more along the lines of shooting people they should not have.

To me one is still more calculated and thought driven and the other more emotional. I would venture the emotional decision is a less stable one, though the difference maybe slight in extreme cases.

I guess one could argue the terrorist leaders are not quite as emotional as those they recruit in the name of Allah. Otherwise we would not be hunting Osama, he would eventually strap on the bomb himself.
 
Nova C:

I think we are basically agreeing on most of it, just that I feel that there is more of a difference in degrees of emotion than you do.

Of course, I have to mostly discount the remarks people make about moving to another country if somebody wins an election. Not only have the vast majority of those people not even checked out the political system of the place they are proposing, or the immigration policies of that country (I have - Canada is NOT easy to get into for most people!), but most have little or no financial ability to start all over again in a new country. They are just saying it to reinforce their strong feelings about politics. I really doubt they will do anything to totally disrupt their lives over it (such as starting a war, lol!)

From what I see, to the AVERAGE American, politics is something you MIGHT get really worked up about for a few months before (or even just after) the election. And maybe when things are going badly, as well. But if the economy and life in general is humming along nicely, the average American mostly ignores politics, unlike religion (for most, not all). That is usually not a part time pursuit. Even those with a lack of religion (atheists and agnostics) are probably more firmly, and permanently, rooted in those beliefs than in their political beliefs.

I think you are right about not everyone over there hating the people in the opposite camp. I just don't know the percentages of population who feel this way or that way. These observations (in my posts) are only my own feelings, backed only by what I read (and the press can be notoriously biased in their reporting), and based on logical guesswork from the histories I have read. I don't know of any reliable polls of the various countries we are discussing. So we just have to put our opinions down to our own feelings based on our own experience and "gut feelings". Only time will tell.
 
It is not the Koran or Islam that is to blame for religious extremism, that is more due to people's interpretations. Any written word can be twisted to mean whatever the reader wants to believe - the Bible, New and Old Testaments are just as vulnerable. I am sorry but I find it hard to believe every Muslim wants to be a suicide bomber and thinks of the USA as the "great satan". It's a few radicals. That's like saying all Christians believe in not going to doctors as the Jehovahs Witnesses or handle rattlesnakes and speak in tongues like that one church in the south does.
Just as in Christianity there are different sects and schisms in Islam. Historically when this happens there is violence. Look at how many witch burnings and beheadings and other stuff like the inquisition has happened in the history of Christianity. I believe a lot of the violence in the Middle East stems from disagreements in between the different sects. It has a long history just as the differences in Christianity have.
Islam is not evil. People who take the words from any holy book and twist it to justify their actions are.
 
ghosthousecorns said:
People who take the words from any holy book and twist it to justify their actions are.
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Depending. I'm not sure I believe in 'evil', although I do agree with much of what you said. I think the thing to watch for are those who are not believers using the religion as a tool to gain power. I believe that Bin Laden (Assuming he is what the US says he is) is one of these people. The problem with believing in something greater than yourself is that you can be manipulated to do things for the benefit of people who are using you and your faith to their own profit.

This isn't to say that I believe religion, or ideology or believing in something greater is inherently bad. It is not. While I have said that I object to people who base their decisions on religious texts, religion is a powerful motivator to do something and many times that thing is good and generous.

Whether or not you believe in god or country, I think it's hard to disagree with the sentiment that the world would be a better place if people were more willing to engage in critical thinking. Adhering to dogma is bad in any sense and if those who are susceptible to becoming something like a suicide bomber analyzed the motives of the organization they are sacrificing themselves for more critically I believe there would be a lot less tragedy and horror in our world.
 
"...the world would be a better place if people were more willing to engage in critical thinking..."

EXACTLY my thoughts!!
 
I don't think you get banned for starting political threads, otherwise, "the man" would have to ban himself.
 
We can discuss any topic we want - at least, those that are suitable for a forum that includes minors at times. As long as people stay civil, I haven't seen anyone banned. Lively discussions are enjoyed by many here, including me! But if anyone starts acting in a troll like manner, or makes personal attacks or other disrespectful behavior, they can expect some kind of consequence. Luckily, I didn't get stuck with the job of mod here (kudos to those who took on THAT responsibility!), but I have been here long enough to see it usually works pretty well. At least, better than any other site I have participated in. As much freedom as possible, without total craziness and "war" between members - seems fairly libertarian to me. That's why I am here, lol!
 
jpccusa said:
I don't think you get banned for starting political threads, otherwise, "the man" would have to ban himself.
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Being "the man", "the man" is not really subject to the rules of the forum. It's his "house", so he can wear shoes in it even if he tells you to take yours off at the door. Fortunately, he comports himself in a manner consistent with the rules. If you can find exceptions, I suggest that you keep them to yourself... fella. :laugh:

Neither ricky nor chemical was suspended for starting a political thread.

It seems as if the admin/mod team is split 50/50 in their appreciation for political threads. But I think we're split 75/25 in our placement to one side or the other of the political spectrum. But I forgive them. They're generally good people (for Floridians, that is). :grin01:
 
I should have elaborated. ricky87 got very overly zealous in his debate. Then created multiple IDs to try and bolster his position. He was caught by the admin and moderators and was banned after getting belligerent. I was only speculating the starter of this thread was a reincarnation from the fact that he/she banned also. I did not actually see the reason chemical69 was banned. Nor do I know if they are one in the same.
 
Roy Munson said:
If you can find exceptions, I suggest that you keep them to yourself... fella. :laugh:
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It's the dreaded "fella"!!! Run for your lives!!! :grin01:

But I forgive them. They're generally good people (for Floridians, that is). :grin01:
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Meh. Just remind them who got The Sunshine State's EVs. Gloating won't become passe until January 20. ;)


Dale
 
jazzgeek said:
Meh. Just remind them who got The Sunshine State's EVs. Gloating won't become passe until January 20. ;)


Dale
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I'm at least proud of my county, whose majority voted as I did. I can't help it that the southern most portion of the state is over-populated with Spanish-speaking people looking for more handouts and that we get a high percentage of transplants from other states because they can no longer afford to live in those "higher income/higher costs" states once they retire.

There's actually alot more to it than that, including the major slump in the housing market, a direct result of Clinton's actions but is blamed on Bush because the end result took longer than 8 years to become apparent, which has left a large portion of the work force here without jobs, hence their desire for "change" that unfortunately, will not be forthcoming with Obama in the long-term.
 
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Susan said:
I can't help it that the southern most portion of the state is over-populated with Spanish-speaking people looking for more handouts
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I don't know why you had to put it like this. Funny most of the Hispanics I know work their butts off to support their families and have great work ethics.
There are people of ALL races looking for handouts. Some of them are even white! And there are people on welfare because they can't find jobs that are not "looking for handouts" at all but they do need a helping hand. If you ever had to walk a mile in their shoes you might not be so harsh to judge them.
 
ghosthousecorns said:
I don't know why you had to put it like this. Funny most of the Hispanics I know work their butts off to support their families and have great work ethics.
There are people of ALL races looking for handouts. Some of them are even white! And there are people on welfare because they can't find jobs that are not "looking for handouts" at all but they do need a helping hand. If you ever had to walk a mile in their shoes you might not be so harsh to judge them.
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I had the same experience when I was a rough-framer working in Texas. Hard working decent people. I remember a Latino comedian recently saying something like: " As for us Mexican-Americans...we didn't cross the border...the border crossed us"
 
This thread isn't taking an immigration turn is it? That may add another half dozen pages.
 
I am a Spanish-speaking person... I am also a Portuguese-speaking person... And of course, I am a English-speaking person as well.

:shrugs:
 
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