It's just corn snakes!

I know what I am about to write may be controversial, perhaps even offensive to some hobbyists but I feel this could be an interesting subject for debate.

Are you not sick of corn snakes, no matter what colour or pattern they come in?! I adore my corns, and have spent a small fortunate on them since I started keeping snakes. My first snakes were corns too, as they have been for many keepers. But I cannot help but feel like no matter what colour they come in, or however expensive or high end they are... that they are just corn snakes. Simply Pantherophis gutatta.

I like to feel challenged with my snakes... and keeping corns is extremely simple and easy going. You KNOW they will eat and you KNOW they will tolerate being handled and not pose you any difficulties husbandry wise. But is that exciting? Does that make you feel good?

I know some people did not approve of me BUYING an eyeless corn snake recently, but shes just such a wonderful challenge. Shes doing magnificently and I have high hopes for her. But shes still a corn snake and her husbandry is no different to any of my perfectly healthy corns.

My question is, would you be happy owning only corn snakes? I know it would drive me insane only keeping corns. The same humdrum day in day out. Predictable feeding routines, insanely easy breeding methods (to the point where even the most novice keeper can "accidentally" breed corns). Are we not flooding the market with indispensable snakes? Statistically, with the amount of corns produced in the UK, EVERYONE should have at least one corn, and we all know that ain't true.

Would you not rather keep endangered species... something thats extremely difficult to keep and breed, and feel a complete sense of satisfaction just getting it to eat nevermind reproduce? You can own hundreds, even thousands of corns snakes in your lifetime and never gain any more experience in dealing with snakes other than knowing how to care for a corn snake. IMO you gain experience of keeping snakes through keeping different species and really challenging yourself. Whats your opinion?

I think corns are fantastic, don't get me wrong, but theres just so much more out there.... there so much more to see and gain experience with. (and no, I am not talking about common boas and cali kings)

I love corn snakes, but I do think I'd get bored if I *only* had corn snakes. Since I don't breed them and I don't depend on them for any portion of my income or my reputation in the animal breeding community, I don't feel obligated to stick to just corn snakes.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. After all, "variety is the spice of life".

Well considering I have about a billion other pets to take care of in addition to my snakes, I'm very happy that they're not much of a challenge, the rest of my life is :grin01:

I understand Jenn, but my point was more towards people with many corns... Do they have that many corn snakes for convenience purposes only? Because its easy to come home to snakes you know will not cause you any trouble?

I know sometimes the last thing I want to do after a 10 hour day at work or nursing training is to come home and clean poop, but I do it because I get to take out my snakes, look them over and see how everyone is doing. I enjoy cleaning time, and I LOVE feeding time. If I ever felt like my snakes were a chore I would either get down to a level I knew I was comfortable with or get rid of them.

I don't think you should ever let your hobby or passion become a chore.

Yeah I'd certainly know if I had too many pets when I started to feel loathsome about all the work required with them.
For me the snakes are more of a relaxation pet :grin01:
*sits back to observe*

Tula_Montage said:

Do they have that many corn snakes for convenience purposes only? Because its easy to come home to snakes you know will not cause you any trouble?
...
I don't think you should ever let your hobby or passion become a chore.

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I don't have any snake breeding experience, but I have a bit of bird breeding experience. When we first started raising birds, we wanted them all--a pair of everything, basically. We had a few easy species, but we also got into some of the more difficult exotics. It was fun for a while 'cause we had something cool and rare, but the care requirements quickly became overwhelming and irritating (special diets, special enclosures, tricky breeding, tough times with babies, trouble finding mates for single animals, etc.). We no longer enjoyed raising birds. So, we sold off the super exotics, picked a few easy-care species, and we've stuck with them. Now the bird business for us is relatively stress free. It's not exciting or challenging like it was with the fancy exotics, but it's more enjoyable now. We still have a couple of the fancy exotics, but they're strictly pets.

So, from a breeding standpoint--especially on a larger scale--I'd say sticking to one species (particularly an easy one) is a matter of convenience. Everything requires the same care, very few quirks. Keeping to one species also allows the breeder to specialize. It's definitely easier for a breeder to stick with one species.

For pets or a very small-scale breeding operation (hobby - no more than 3 clutches a year), I still prefer variety.

I would be happy owning no snakes. I'm a happy guy, lol. But I won't own just corns, though I don't think I'll be keeping anything too exotic either.
I don't want them to be a challenge, I just want them to be beautiful and healthy. I LOVE that they eat, and when I have some that won't, it consumes my thoughts while I'm at work and while I'm trying to sleep! :grin01:

JUST corn snakes? They are still some of the most attractive snakes out there if you ask me.. Not just color-wise (though I like that as well) but their shape, I prefer it over the that of pythons a hundred times. My snake asthetic runs corn/king/milk/gopher.. Lucky for me they are plentiful and cheap! Even in pythons, I prefer womas and black-heads which look more long and thin and have a bold (but not too busy) pattern..

To each his/her own though..

One thing I have learned though about my personal snake hobby. I NEVER want to breed again. When I decided to do it it just seemed like the "next step".. But Ruby had such a tough time, and now I have a bunch of babies that I don't want to just sell off, I want to see them go to good homes or I want to keep them! lol. I'm too sensitive for the breeding stuff I guess. I think that 6 snakes would probably be just about ideal for me, and yeah, mostly corns..

Interesting post!

Ease of keeping, variety of morphs, and moderate adult size were what attracted me to cornsnakes. (I bet corns are a gateway snake for keepers who *do* go on to rare and difficult species!)

I have enough *other* challenges in my life that I don't need my pets to be challenging too!

Leaving aside the legal and ethical issues involved in acquiring endangered species, I don't have the skills to be comfortable trying to keep difficult species and would worry about honing my skills at the expense of the animals.

Elle said:

Are you not sick of corn snakes, no matter what colour or pattern they come in?! I adore my corns, and have spent a small fortunate on them since I started keeping snakes. My first snakes were corns too, as they have been for many keepers. But I cannot help but feel like no matter what colour they come in, or however expensive or high end they are... that they are just corn snakes. Simply Pantherophis gutatta.

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Nope, I'm not sick of them. I don't know what a sunkissed-lavender-cinder-blood would look like, and I can't wait to find out.

I like to feel challenged with my snakes... and keeping corns is extremely simple and easy going. You KNOW they will eat and you KNOW they will tolerate being handled and not pose you any difficulties husbandry wise. But is that exciting? Does that make you feel good?

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My focus is breeding. You make it sound easy, but being a breeder is a bumpy ride. My lav-blood x lava clutch looked great, and then the eggs all went to hell. I wanted to see some lava-lavender-bloods in a few years. Lost a year on that one (at least). Had some kinkers too in some clutches that were disappointing, and my entire pewter clutch was a complete bust. But the awesome hypo-bloods and lavs het whatever made me feel like a kid at Christmas. That's a hard feeling to come by, and one I wouldn't get from just keeping a more "challenging" species.

I know some people did not approve of me BUYING an eyeless corn snake recently, but shes just such a wonderful challenge. Shes doing magnificently and I have high hopes for her. But shes still a corn snake and her husbandry is no different to any of my perfectly healthy corns.

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I don't understand paying extra money for a snake with this deformity, but I don't disapprove. But where's the challenge? Corns aren't sight-hunters. Put it in a small enough feeding tub, and it'll eat (unless it's a non-feeder anyway).

My question is, would you be happy owning only corn snakes? I know it would drive me insane only keeping corns. The same humdrum day in day out. Predictable feeding routines, insanely easy breeding methods (to the point where even the most novice keeper can "accidentally" breed corns). Are we not flooding the market with indispensable snakes? Statistically, with the amount of corns produced in the UK, EVERYONE should have at least one corn, and we all know that ain't true.

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I could be happy owning only corns. As much as I like my other snakes, I sometimes wish that I had stuck to corns exclusively. Relative ease of breeding doesn't change the fact that the road to producing crazy, cutting-edge morphs requires planning, patience, and years of committment. Would I get sick of throwing random normals and anerys together year after year? Sure; but that's not what the passionate corn hobbyists are up to.

Would you not rather keep endangered species... something thats extremely difficult to keep and breed, and feel a complete sense of satisfaction just getting it to eat nevermind reproduce? You can own hundreds, even thousands of corns snakes in your lifetime and never gain any more experience in dealing with snakes other than knowing how to care for a corn snake. IMO you gain experience of keeping snakes through keeping different species and really challenging yourself. Whats your opinion?

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Nope. I want to breed cool snakes, and I think that corns are cool. There are plenty of people with the "just corn snakes" attitude, and it really doesn't matter to me. It sounds like you and I have different goals as herp enthusiasts. I don't have time to produce cool snakes of my favorite species AND struggle with collecting and keeping more challenging species. I have to limit my focus. If I had unlimited time and funds, things might be different. Corns aren't my favorite snakes due to their ease of keeping. Since I was a kid, I've always seen corns as the most pleasing snakes aesthetically. I think they have the most pleasing proportions of any snakes. There are other species that are nearly as pleasing in this regard, e.g., African house snakes, other rat snakes, and many king snakes. It's an 'eye of the beholder' thing, I guess.

I think corns are fantastic, don't get me wrong, but theres just so much more out there.... there so much more to see and gain experience with. (and no, I am not talking about common boas and cali kings)

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Yep, and the same can be said for any of our interests. I don't have time to listen to every recording, watch every film, read every book, visit every place, keep and/or breed every animal, etc.. So I focus on the things that have consistently grabbed me, sometimes at the exclusion of things I might also like, but don't have time to explore. Corns grabbed me a long time ago, and their grasp is only tightening. To each his own.

Heh. My life is challenging enough, it's kind of nice to have a hobby that's not rocket science. Then again, I don't know what luck you've had but I'm no where near reaching cornsnake breeding perfection in any aspect... striving for no deformities, good temperaments, good feeding responses, and then great color and pattern to boot. Then again I pick projects such as Candy Cane Motley and Okeetee Motley... definitely challenging. I also enjoy the morph game and trying to find the fastest way to that coveted triple, quad or even quint homo animal. It's quite a rush being the first to produce something and the joy will never compare to just buying a high end morph. :shrugs:
If you are getting bored, you can branch out or you could just raise the bar a little. :cheers:

Personally, I don't keep corns because they are exciting. In fact I don't really think any snake is exciting, some are easy to care for, some are hard to care for. Cleaning and feeding is a chore for me, nothing enjoyable at all.
Corns are beautiful and I'm happy I have healthy, good feeding snakes (except one). I get enjoyment from handling them or watching them go about there snakey lives.

Keeping a difficult species would be too time consuming and would ultimately lead to me not liking the animal. I ran into that when I had crsted geckos, they are really neat animals but I hated all the care they required. Maybe thats why I like tarantulas so much, they only need minumal care.

I can see where you come from here, Elle. I love corns, but I've thought about what snakes might be coming my way in the future and the majority aren't corns. I like to have 1-few corns, but personally I prefer to have a more diverse collection. I've really enjoyed my rainbow boa so far, because I have to do things for her the other two don't require. (humidity, etc.) It makes me think and stops my snake keeping become a 'going through the motions' hobby.

But, some people are just really passionate about corns. A bit like some people have 10 yorkshire terriers or a house full of cats. If that's what really appeals to them, great. We're all different.

Tula_Montage said:

Are you not sick of corn snakes, no matter what colour or pattern they come in?!

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I'm certainly not sick of corn snakes, but I did decide to expand my collection to include other snakes that have compatible husbandry and add some variety. I knew I had to own a Baird's rat snake from the very first picture I saw of one. Cali kings aren't that different, but my Taiwan Beauty is nothing like a corn, in looks or temperament. I plan to get an Amazon tree boa, hopefully this fall. It will be more on display than my corns because I think ATBs are more interesting to watch. After all, corns spend most of their time out of sight...not exactly a spectator pet.

I bet you'll change your mind about breeding corns being boring when you actually have a pair hook up for the first time, wait for the laying, go through incubation and pip!

Just a thought though Elle, have you still got the turtle and the hoggies? Maybe this is really that you personally need something rarer or more difficult? Like mandarin rats or Reins?

I have had other snakes and I am definately a corn person. There is no other species that "do it" for me. I don't want or need a challenge. I don't want something huge, or hard to keep, or tricky to feed and I don't want to be nervous about losing a limb at feeding time either. Corn snakes are the perfect size, and I love that they feed readily. The morphs they come in literally make my heart pound, my head light and my knees weak.

For me, there really is nothing better!

The 'just corn snakes' attitude is out there, I have noticed some reptile enthusiasts kind of look down on corns. Well I know they are considered beginner snakes and all, but to me they are not that boring. I have a couple of corns that feeding them can be a challenge I also get immense satisfaction from watching them pip and getting them to eat their first meals. I love the variety of color and pattern. To me there is just nothing boring about them.
The level of commitment it would take to properly take care of a 'more difficult' species is quite high. I leave that to those who have the time and dedication. I do keep other species, king snakes, but they are just as 'easy' as the corns. I admire the people who take it a step further but I personally find keeping corns interesting and worthwhile in itself.

Right, I have noticed something straight away.... Everyone is so passionate about corns because of the variety they come in. And thats great, no other snake comes in so many variants or has the possibility to come in another 9 thousand variants. But if corns only were only normal in colouration, would you still feel the same?

I'm not bored of corns, nor will I ever be. I just simply cannot see myself having more than 10 at a time. I have a few pretty nice (and utterly exciting) breeding projects for the future, hypo lav bloods, lav blood stripes, ice blood stripes, phantom lav bloods etc but that takes time. I KNOW the difficulties of breeding corns, and I know how heartbreaking it can be. But I also know exactly how to do it before I have even done it.

I like jumping in blind so to speak. For example, breeding boelens pythons is damn near impossible in captivity as nobody can figure out what makes them tick. They need to be cooled to somewhere in the region of 9 degrees... for a python (or any boid) thats life threatening. So I wonder how it will feel for the first person in the UK to breed a healthy litter of boelens pythons. I would rather have that success than breeding the first hypo bloodred striped lavender cinder.

Janine, nope I don't have the hoggies or the turtle as I found them a pain in the bum to keep... not a good pain in the bum, and not something I wanted to improvise with or improve... I do however have the likes of sweetpea who is a huge challenge at times. For example we have just had to move her out her herptek cage AGAIN as shes simply uncageable. Stress will kill her species quicker than anything else and we are actually very concerned for her at the moment. But that makes it exciting. If she dies we can use it as a learing experience and write about it for other keepers, afterall she is the only philodryas baroni in Scotland...

As for other rarer species, I adore mandarins but simply wouldn't pay the money they are after for all WC specimens, they don't do well in captivity. Its near impossible to get your hands on CB specimens in the UK too. We are however getting a pair of sunbeams (X. unicolour) from one of the first litters produce in the UK. They are lovely wee iridescent jobby snakes. I would much rather spend a few hundred on those than a lavender stripe or whatever, even though thats my favourite corn snake morph.

Another thing, I don't agree with the "it's just corn snakes" mentality as such... I constantly have people asking me why I have so many (few in comparison to others), but I also find myself questioning why other people have so much more ie 50 - 100+
Now I can understand why you would want to work with a species that comes in every colour under the sun, quite literally, but underneath it all they are Pantherophis gutatta.

I do think corn snakes are fabulous in every aspect, but if they didn't come in the lavender cultivar I wouldn't own any to be honest, and thats what makes them so special as they have something to offer everyone. And thus lies some hypocrisy on my part.

Tula_Montage said:

Right, I have noticed something straight away.... Everyone is so passionate about corns because of the variety they come in. And thats great, no other snake comes in so many variants or has the possibility to come in another 9 thousand variants. But if corns only were only normal in colouration, would you still feel the same?.

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If they just came in normal, the challenge would be to see if they *could* come in other colors/patterns. At least, that's what's happened with ball pythons and boas and kings and water dragons and crested geckos and you name it.

Tula_Montage said:

I like jumping in blind so to speak. For example, breeding boelens pythons is damn near impossible in captivity as nobody can figure out what makes them tick. They need to be cooled to somewhere in the region of 9 degrees... for a python (or any boid) thats life threatening. So I wonder how it will feel for the first person in the UK to breed a healthy litter of boelens pythons. I would rather have that success than breeding the first hypo bloodred striped lavender cinder.

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I think if you have the skill or the dedication and a good grounding in what's already been tried and failed, and taking the animals from the wild isn't endangering the species as a whole, that this is a noble effort. It's jut not for me.

Tula_Montage said:

I do however have the likes of sweetpea who is a huge challenge at times. For example we have just had to move her out her herptek cage AGAIN as shes simply uncageable. Stress will kill her species quicker than anything else and we are actually very concerned for her at the moment. But that makes it exciting. If she dies we can use it as a learing experience and write about it for other keepers, afterall she is the only philodryas baroni in Scotland....

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Here's where you and I differ a lot. I get really invested in my animals, and even if I were doing great, ground breaking husbandry work, I couldn't deal with the emotional cost of having an animal completely fail to thrive. Chaulking it up to experience, even when that experience is an important addition to pool of knowledge about keeping a difficult species, is too hard for me.

Tula_Montage said:

As for other rarer species, I adore mandarins but simply wouldn't pay the money they are after for all WC specimens, they don't do well in captivity. Its near impossible to get your hands on CB specimens in the UK too. We are however getting a pair of sunbeams (X. unicolour) from one of the first litters produce in the UK. They are lovely wee iridescent jobby snakes. I would much rather spend a few hundred on those than a lavender stripe or whatever, even though thats my favourite corn snake morph.

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This may also be the difference between living in a relatively small country where it is difficult to get many species and one actually has the chance of breaking new ground, and living in a large country where the groundbreaking work has mostly already been done by people with way more resources than I have!

The thrill of being the first in my country has already been claimed by others in most cases. And with my budget and the availability of interesting, inexpensive hets, I'm far more likely to get near the cutting edge with corn morphs than with anything else. And the challenge of combining multiple recessives without paying top dollar for someone else's hard work is very satisfying. It's like a chess tournament: charting multiple moves in advance and holding your breath while the snakes (and Murphy) make theirs.