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Can snakes be fed a vegan diet?

Someone mentioned a small time rodent breeder... this is a good idea if you don't want to handle mice yourself. Most people who breed mice as snake food take steps to ensure that the mice are healthy and well cared for so that the snakes do not absorb anything that might make them sick/kill them.

A rat I bought from a rodent breeder at a reptile show lived as my pet for almost year. The one I bought at the petstore shortly after getting the first died a month later of unknown causes. To me that is a big difference.
 
I appreciate the passion here definitely!

When I adopted the snake I knew all to do to take care of him/her. There doesn't need to be worries about the setup. Up to this point I have been feeding the snake mice because up to this point that was the best option. After reading all your posts I realize I should have thought the idea out more first. You need to all know I have good intentions. I'm not a troll I'm just not very well written and not an experienced forum goer.

Perhaps the vegan cats aren't healthy after all. I guess it was naive to believe that. My dog however is healthy on the raw meat. The roadkill is picked up and frozen asap, it is not sitting around for days festering first.

I've decided I want to look into the carbon dioxide method for killing and raising my own feeders. That is the closest way I can ensure the mice are happy.
 
Emily1188 said:
From a utilitarian point of view, killing the snakes makes sense. One death vs. hundreds to feed it over its life time.

And that's why utilitarianism spawned the mental disease that is animal rights.
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mental disease..?

ever heard of women's rights, aboriginal rights?

what does it matter if they are animals, what is the difference?

if it's their level of intelligence, what about people with mental disabilities, should we test products on people with autism? :(
 
Lucille said:
I'm thinking that the Disney channel and cutely laundered made-for-tv-movies have spawned a generation of kids who are unaware of the realities of life. I do not fault them one bit, if they have not real gotten info or experience from family or school and if they think that life is 100% warm fuzzies, then they will think like the OP.

The OP might be a troll, but might be a product of Disney. The issue presented by her post is an opportunity to talk about education and living in society, anyway.
Our great-grandmothers went out into the yard, killed and plucked a chicken and cooked it for dinner and the kids saw all that being done.
Today's kids go to the drive-through with their parents and get a bucket to KFC. We tend to think that more modern is better, but in this example, the great g'mom and her family know more about life than the KFC crowd.

Much of today's life is glitzed and deodorized and packaged. If the OP is a troll, I'm all for ignoring her. But who knows, if she is in fact the product of today's society, a gentle reality check would be good for her snake, and for her as well.

The problem with a world run by spin doctors is that it is a disservice to those who have NEVER had their feet on the ground through no fault of their own, and if we can help anchor one inexperienced person at a time, it would be a service to snake and owner both.
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Honestly that was mildly offensive.. and the complete opposite of where I'm going. It would be Disney fairy tales to not care or think about the petstore mice. The reality does not have to be cruelty. We don't have to settle for cruelty. Supply/Demand anyone? :idea: If we demand better treatment of feeders can we not make a difference?
 
[starla] said:
Perhaps the vegan cats aren't healthy after all. I guess it was naive to believe that. My dog however is healthy on the raw meat. The roadkill is picked up and frozen asap, it is not sitting around for days festering first.

I've decided I want to look into the carbon dioxide method for killing and raising my own feeders. That is the closest way I can ensure the mice are happy.
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The vegan cats are either good hunters or not healthy. Dogs & cats can & do thrive on a raw diet, and I can certainly see that freshly killed venison from roadkill would be a good basis for a healthy raw diet. If you live someplace where roadkill happens often & you have a big freezer, this sounds workable although I'd never thought of it! The infamous "dogs in elk" story on the interwebs came from the desire to feed healthy raw foods, after all.

Raising your own feeder mice WILL give you the ability to have happy mice. I've raised mice as mice (didn't have snakes then) & it is pretty easy to provide high quality environments for mice. They are also fun to watch! Good luck.

Keep in mind that snakes are addictive! Almost no one can have just one.
 
[starla] said:
mental disease..?

ever heard of women's rights, aboriginal rights?

what does it matter if they are animals, what is the difference?

if it's their level of intelligence, what about people with mental disabilities, should we test products on people with autism? :(
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There is a HUGE difference between Animal "Rights" and Animal "Welfare". Animal rights activists are deranged delusional and oftentimes psychotic individuals that would like nothing better than to see the elimination of the pet trade (i.e. PETA, HSUS). Animal welfare is a completely different story, as they more so care about how animals are being treated to make sure they have a good life.
 
bekers71 said:
Hmmmm...so lets see if I can get this straight. You adopted a snake from some one else and didn't you know what they ate? Or were you caught up in the moment and didn't think to find out? Better yet..did you not do any research about snake care prior to acquiring the animal? Because if you were not prepared to properly care for your snake you should have passed on getting it. I mean come on. You're supposedly 21 yrs old and in all your life you never knew the diet of a typical snake? Never watch TV? How would you propose making a snake consume some asparagus or some tomato? That's just ridiculously absurd. The most humane thing to do for your snake would be let some one else be it's owner.
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I'm taking care of my snake fine. I've owned him/her for over a year now. I know the typical diet of a snake. Since when did typical mean only. Honestly, I came here out of curiosity to see if there were other options. I am not feeding my snake a vegan diet, I wondered if it was possible.
 
Can't rep you Robbie. :/ We had to do a paper at school on the difference between animal welfare and animal "rights".

PETA and the other "rights" organisations are full of scary crackpots who kill animals because they think being dead is better than being 'enslaved' by humans. Those organisations would result in far more death than occurs now. It's astoundingly hypocritical.

As to the vegan cat thing, you should *always* double check any claim people make. A lot of time, people are massively ill informed about things, and will happily spread pure nonsense because it sounds good. Don't let yourself fall for that in the future.
 
LBoz said:
Seriously though, I don't think Starla is a troll. I think she just got stuck on this train of thought and wanted to see what others thought of it. Obviously it's not a good idea, and maybe a hamster or other seed eating creature might be more to your liking, Starla. I have a friend who adores snakes but cannot fathom the idea of feeding it, so he doesn't have them. There's nothing wrong with admitting you chose the wrong pet for your lifestyle, but you should seriously consider rehoming the animal to someone who can care for it properly. Killing the snake to benefit the mice he might have eaten is pretty extreme, don't you think?
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I'm not squeamish about handling mice. That isn't the issue here. I am caring for my snake properly. Brainstorming ideas on this board isn't resulting in me feeding my snake a vegan diet. It has prevented me from doing so. And no I don't think that is extreme. I value a mice's life the same as a snake's life.
 
Shiari said:
Can't rep you Robbie. :/ We had to do a paper at school on the difference between animal welfare and animal "rights".

PETA and the other "rights" organisations are full of scary crackpots who kill animals because they think being dead is better than being 'enslaved' by humans. Those organisations would result in far more death than occurs now. It's astoundingly hypocritical.

As to the vegan cat thing, you should *always* double check any claim people make. A lot of time, people are massively ill informed about things, and will happily spread pure nonsense because it sounds good. Don't let yourself fall for that in the future.
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I believed the cats were healthy because the woman who cares for them has devoted her whole life to animal rights. I cannot imagine her treating her cats any less than perfect. I believed cats could be vegan before I believed she had made a mistake.

PETA does not always represent the animal activists in the best light. Some of their campaigns are stupid.
 
[starla] said:
I believed the cats were healthy because the woman who cares for them has devoted her whole life to animal rights. I cannot imagine her treating her cats any less than perfect. I believed cats could be vegan before I believed she had made a mistake.

PETA does not always represent the animal activists in the best light. Some of their campaigns are stupid.
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Unless she was supplementing them massively with taurine and arachidonic acid, they would be blind and have heart, liver, and digestive problems. And you get those two from meat. Are the cats indoor only? You should ask her to detail her cats' diets, including every supplement and treat they get.
 
Shiari said:
Can't rep you Robbie. :/ We had to do a paper at school on the difference between animal welfare and animal "rights".
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Sadly, I'm unable to do so either. :(

[starla] said:
And no I don't think that is extreme. I value a mice's life the same as a snake's life.
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So by your thinking: (if you eat meat, and I were vegan, which I'm most certainly not) It would not be extreme for me to think you should be killed over a cow because I value the cow's life as much as a human's? See...makes no sense. It is nature's way, get over it.

[starla] said:
PETA does not always represent the animal activists in the best light. Some of their campaigns are stupid.
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Wrong. ALL their campaigns are stupid.

Believe me, I'm all for animal welfare and animals being treated well, but the extreme ideas that PETA and HSUS try to push on everyone are just ridiculous.
 
[starla] said:
I wonder if for the greater good it would be more humane to painlessly kill my snake rather than buy frozen mice from the petstores in my area. Not because of the cost but because I don't like supporting petstores that sell animals.
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LBoz said:
Killing the snake to benefit the mice he might have eaten is pretty extreme, don't you think?
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[starla] said:
And no I don't think that is extreme. I value a mice's life the same as a snake's life.
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I'm sorry, but I'm having difficult wrapping my brain around this. Would it then be more humane for me to painlessly kill my children rather than shop for food for them....because groceries sell meat which means animals were killed. OR if I put them on a vegan diet, that still means animals were harmed by the land cleared and deforestation needed to grow the crops, and those are also sold at groceries. Or perhaps I should just bomb all grocery stores and farms and meat processing plants?
 
LBoz said:
I'm sorry, but I'm having difficult wrapping my brain around this. Would it then be more humane for me to painlessly kill my children rather than shop for food for them....because groceries sell meat which means animals were killed. OR if I put them on a vegan diet, that still means animals were harmed by the land cleared and deforestation needed to grow the crops, and those are also sold at groceries. Or perhaps I should just bomb all grocery stores and farms and meat processing plants?
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Of course it is, Lori! After all, their lives and the lives of an animal raised to be food are completely equal, and sacrificing them is the logical way to preserve a food animal!
 
Just my opinion......
Animal welfare is paramount..... Thats why we are here....
Animal rights...... Don't exist... Except in somebodies head...
Animal rights are a BS concept made up by vegans that have nothing better to do......
God i hope I worded that right..... And you know where I am coming from....
 
snakewispera snr said:
Just my opinion......
Animal welfare is paramount..... Thats why we are here....
Animal rights...... Don't exist... Except in somebodies head...
Animal rights are a BS concept made up by vegans that have nothing better to do......
God i hope I worded that right..... And you know where I am coming from....
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Yep.

Animals get welfare because they're incapable of caring for themselves. With rights come inherent responsibility. Because I don't hold animals responsible for their actions, I also don't grant them rights.

For example, my dog does not have the right to choose what she eats, because she is not responsible for her own health and the ensuing vet bills. I am responsible for her health, therefore I have the right to decide what she eats.

Animals gets welfare, not rights.

I feel bad for your friend's cats.
 
starla you came her pretty much asking to get raided and bombarded with replies that would infact upset you.

let me ask you this. have you ever watched the discovery channel and seen a snake take a chunk out of a ficus???? .... didnt think so.

now instead of fighting this just leave it be. people here care for snakes. dont kill it someone here will take it. and if you were caring for it for over a year then why you ask now?? have your parents kill you because groceries contain meat *thanks lori;)*

you asked for it. you got it. sorry to be so cold cut and dry
 
LBoz said:
Would it then be more humane for me to painlessly kill my children rather than shop for food for them...?
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Hallie said:
So by your thinking: (if you eat meat, and I were vegan, which I'm most certainly not) It would not be extreme for me to think you should be killed over a cow because I value the cow's life as much as a human's?
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I don't think there is anything wrong with her saying she values a mouse's life just the same as a snake's life. What is wrong with that? I value both as well. I'm still going to be buying frozen mice for my snake and I know damn well where my hamburgers come from, but I can still value the life and want humane treatment. You guys have no reason to make fun of her saying she values both animals, and comparing that statement to a statement comparing human life vs. animal life is dumb and sounds to me like just a way to make fun.
 
Katie612 said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with her saying she values a mouse's life just the same as a snake's life. What is wrong with that? I value both as well. I'm still going to be buying frozen mice for my snake and I know damn well where my hamburgers come from, but I can still value the life and want humane treatment. You guys have no reason to make fun of her saying she values both animals, and comparing that statement to a statement comparing human life vs. animal life is dumb and sounds to me like just a way to make fun.
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We value the mouse and the snake's life. that's why we look down on feeding live, because it causes the mouse to die afraid and in pain, rather than falling asleep in a CO2 chamber. But killing one animal because you don't want to feed it the other is stupid and pointless, and this person is a troll regardless of what they say to the contrary. The less attention we give them the sooner they'll leave.
 
I don't agree with killing the snake to save the mice, but that is because I enjoy having a snake as a pet. Someone who loves and gets attached to mice would see it the other way. We all have biased opinions and it's not okay to say someone else's bias is wrong just because it's different than yours.
 
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