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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

How are GOLDENS "any" different than Caramels?
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:15 PM   #1
ecreipeoj
How are GOLDENS "any" different than Caramels?

I recently offered my Golden collection for sale to pay a tax debt. I ended up selling have of my breeders and held onto the Golden's.

I received several emails asking the question, "How are Golden's any different than Caramels?

This is a fair question, because at first glance they look very similar.

How are Cinders "any" different than Anerys? How are Lavas any different than Hypos?

They are a different gene. They are similar, BUT they look different.

I bred Goldens to Caramels and produced NORMALS. Goldens are the newest Corn Snake gene to be discovered. Goldens are as different from Caramels as Cinders are from Anerys, and Lavas are from Hypos. They are a different gene.

Caramels are perfectly named, they look exactly like caramel candy. They are a brownish/yellow color. Golden's on the other hand are Golden Yellow on a greenish back ground color.

Caramels are brownish. Golden's are greenish. Most Caramels are "Border-less", a gene picked up from Rat Snakes. Golden's have borders and produce Normal offspring the same as the wild caught from the Locality. Borderless Normals produced from Caramels Do NOT exist in the wild.

Caramels are from a Corn Snake that was purchased from a pet store. Golden's were produced from a wild caught snake. Golden's are a locality corn snake just like Hunt Club Okeetees are.

Caramels are from the Corn Snake Gene Pool, and have another unique gene combined with it to produce very Yellow Snakes. I call it Yellow Jacket. Some people call it Yellow Factor. There are several genes in the Corn Snake Gene pool that cause extreme YELLOW.

All Pewters are Yellow Jackets. All Lavenders are Yellow Jackets. Yellow Jacket is the cause of the Phenotype of Pewter, Yellow Jacket is the cause of the Phenotype of Lavender.

We have all seen Dark Pewters and Dark Lavenders without Yellow Jacket. These are the true color of Charcoal Bloodreds and Lavender without the Yellow Jacket gene influence.

Golden's are very different than Caramels from the General Corn Snake Gene Pool. Golden's are perfectly named. They are a Golden Yellow color on a greenish background color. Caramels are brown without the Yellow Jacket gene present.

Golden's are a new Corn Snake gene from a wild caught snake. Golden's can be combined with all previously discovered genes to create NEW Corn Snake Combines.
 
Old 07-11-2018, 01:37 PM   #2
scmartin27
Love the post, Joe. Thanks! I'm happy to have 2.3 phs from the project. Hope to continue it along with you and WindSerpents.
There's a section in my book about them, also. Hope people read it and realize there IS a difference!
It's like Toffee/Buf - they are very "caramel-ish" too... but no one doubts them because they are dominant instead of recessive.
Regardless - Glad the project lives on, hope it starts to flourish soon!
 
Old 07-11-2018, 07:46 PM   #3
Dragonling
I was considering asking if you had sold that group. Glad you wound up hanging onto them. The fertile male was suffering a respiratory illness for some time, but he seems to have recovered spontaneously and has been VERY interested in the females currently below him in the rack, so we are hopeful he will be ready to pair up next season with the now very large female phets.

Really pleased with the animals I got from you by the way. I'm holding off on breeding the Topaz cuz she's a little small but the other 3 appear gravid.
 
Old 07-18-2018, 06:42 PM   #4
ecreipeoj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonling View Post
I was considering asking if you had sold that group. Glad you wound up hanging onto them. The fertile male was suffering a respiratory illness for some time, but he seems to have recovered spontaneously and has been VERY interested in the females currently below him in the rack, so we are hopeful he will be ready to pair up next season with the now very large female phets.

Really pleased with the animals I got from you by the way. I'm holding off on breeding the Topaz cuz she's a little small but the other 3 appear gravid.
Somebody needs to repeat my test breeding between Carmel and Golden.

My Golden male has bred several female. Hope he nocked them up!
 
Old 07-20-2018, 05:06 PM   #5
Dragonling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecreipeoj View Post
Somebody needs to repeat my test breeding between Carmel and Golden.

My Golden male has bred several female. Hope he nocked them up!
I can probably make that happen next season. I never did keep many Caramels around.

Send me some hets!
 
Old 08-09-2018, 09:47 PM   #6
ecreipeoj
Goldens breeding

Here are a few of photos of my Golden male breeding his Het Golden Mother and Golden sister.

The last photo is of the Golden female in natural light.

Fertile eggs are incubating, from Golden x Het Golden, Golden x (2) 66% ph Golden and Golden x Golden, so it looks very positive that I will produce some more Goldens this year!

I also bred my Golden male to my Wild Line of Lavas, so I will have the ingredients for some Landrace Golden Lavas in the future.

Next year, I will be able to breed Golden X Landrace Sunkissed. I feel very privileged to soon be able to have three Landrace lines traced back to wild caughts to work with, Landrace Lavas, Landrace Sunkissed and Landrace Goldens.
 
Old 08-10-2018, 12:22 AM   #7
Rich Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecreipeoj View Post
Caramels are brownish. Golden's are greenish. Most Caramels are "Border-less", a gene picked up from Rat Snakes.
"Rat Snakes"?? What are those? Other than "Red Rat Snakes", of course.

And I beg to differ, but most of the Caramels I produced and kept long enough to tell, had prominent black borders to the blotches. Matter of fact, I wasn't able to REDUCE those borders till I started breeding Hypo into the line, as well as Motley, and Blood Red. I actually had to work to reduce those black borders in subsequent generations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecreipeoj View Post
Golden's have borders and produce Normal offspring the same as the wild caught from the Locality. Borderless Normals produced from Caramels Do NOT exist in the wild.
How do you know that? You have extensively canvassed the locality where the original animal carrying the Caramel gene came from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecreipeoj View Post
Caramels are from a Corn Snake that was purchased from a pet store. Golden's were produced from a wild caught snake. Golden's are a locality corn snake just like Hunt Club Okeetees are.
Yes, a LOCALITY wild caught animal brought into a pet shop. Cape Coral, to be exact.

I'm surprised I still have these pics laying around from 2007.
 

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