Is it worth breeding feeders for 5 snakes?

I currently have 5 corn snakes. I'll one day have many more, but for now just 5. Two are on adult mice, two are on hoppers and one is on pinkies and about to move up to fuzzies. Would it be worth having a breeding pair of mice for feeders?

My thoughts were with 1 breeding pair I can use the first litter once they hit the fuzzy stage for my smallest snake. Then, I could use the next litter once they hit fuzzy stage and then grow out the next litter after that until they're adults. Or I could do this in reverse since it takes more time to grow out adults and they're usually more expensive anyway.

Any thoughts on whether this is worth it?

:cheers:

I guess it would depend on your point of view.
You have the measurable costs of housing, equipment (water bottles etc) and food as well as the space they take up (not much but still a spot where you can't have a snake
Then there is the time you spend caring for them - cleaning, water changes, feeding euthanizing, etc. - and the smell of rodents in your house.

What is your time worth?
How tight is your budget?

There are certainly some advantages to having your own food supply, You have better quality control, and live food for the picky eater or babies.

It has been a lot of years since I raised mice/rats as feeders. So my advice is pretty sketchy ! One pair is not enough, even for a small group of snakes. It would mean having that female preggers almost constantly. Having at least 2-3 females would be more practical and kind. That way there could be a pause between litters and in case of some health condition ( of the mice ). They do not take up a lot of space, but they do have a distinct smell.

I have about 30-50 mice at any given time to feed 4 snakes. I haven't figured out if it's saved me much money, but I like the thought of the mice having a good life before they become snake food. I started with 6 females and 1 male, and have kept some offspring to continue the breeding line. I pick up used cages and equipment when I find them cheap. Sometimes it's a fun project, sometimes it's a chore.

The main drawback for me is that I hate the smell of mice so I raise them in a semi-insulated garage that I have to keep heated. I'm not sure how much that is actually costing me over the winter!

You could try rats. The pups might be the right size for two of your snakes and it wouldn't take too long to grow them up large enough for the adults. That won't help your baby situation of course.

Rats smell too, but not as bad as mice. They're also much less likely to eat their babies saving you a lot of frustration when you're counting on the litter. Don't waste your time with 1:1 though, get 2 or 3 girls with your boys, depending on your space.

As far as the economics go, I'd say "maybe" in your situation. I'd say do it if it's fun and interesting, but not if it's the primary factor.

I've worked with mice in research and in the past tried to keep some when I got a pregnant female.
My feeling is you couldnt pay me to raise mice in my home. Between the smell, the bites and them eating each other I am happy to pay even a premium price for dead frozen ones to use at my convenience.

When I walk by the animal housing buildings (university campus) and get a whiff of mouse smell I want to puke.

Even rats- my boyfriend had me take care of his pet rat and the girlfriend he got for it. The male died and I found the female eating him. Boyfriend conveniently out of town so I got to deal with it. Never again!!!!

Another big NO from me. Not worth it at all. You will spend far more in bedding and food than you will save from ordering online. And the smell is awful. Even cleaning every 3 days, the smell is still bad. And that's a lot of bedding over the span of 6 months.

^ just to comment on that, I use newspapers and the confetti from my cross-cut paper shredder at work for bedding. The mice like newspapers to tear into little strips for building their nests. I don't buy bedding at all. But yeah, the smell is not okay for inside the house as far as I'm concerned.

I tried to raise mice to save money when my collection was small like yours. It never actually saved any money. I either never had they size I need for the snakes or 1 would go on a rampage and kill all its tank mates. When ever a male would die from old age or too much sex the tank, that only had 3 females would go nuts 1 of them would eat the others babies or they start fighting And you can almost forget about bring a new male in cause there is 3 months of waiting for him to stop eating babies. Any how, I sat with my wife and did the math every month and the cost was almost the same as buying frozen. So, I say no way, not worth the time, smell and aggravation.

a mouse can die from too much sex? o.0
Other than a few pets as a kid, I don't have any experience with mice.
They sound pretty nasty (cannibals) Is there a reason they do so much of this? Stress, maybe?
If they are this bad, how do they survive in the wild?

In my experience, it's mostly males who kill other males. This makes sense from a biological view. I actually have a hard time raising mice to adult feeder size, because you want to keep the females to breed but the males all murder each other as soon as they're sexually mature.

I have had a few females eat their babies but it helps if you don't try to clean the cage or move the babies in the first 4-5 days. Sometimes they will have a ton of babies and they seem to reduce them to a manageable number.

Well, there are definitely right and wrong ways of doing it. I've bred a lot of rodents for a lot of years and I don't get some of the stories mentioned. In particular, for me it's always the females that fight and eat each others' (or their own) babies. I don't ever introduce new rodents into an established group. If there are trouble makers, they volunteer to become food. You have to keep your breeders young and then cycle them. Those are just a couple of thoughts. If you still want to breed and want some tips you can find them here, or let us know.

I don't think it's going to be much more economical to breed your own in your situation, though there are ways to keep costs down for sure. I go between periods of only breeding or only buying, or sometimes both.

I don't know if there are other breeders/keepers in KS near you, but if so, you can team up to buy them in bulk. It saves a lot on shipping and you get way more for your money. I have probably 500 vacuum packed mice in the freezer right now, my cost (going in with others) was about $200 but it sure the hell beats 6 pinkies for $12 at the pet shops!

nancyg said:

a mouse can die from too much sex? o.0
Other than a few pets as a kid, I don't have any experience with mice.
They sound pretty nasty (cannibals) Is there a reason they do so much of this? Stress, maybe?
If they are this bad, how do they survive in the wild?

Click to expand...

Both male and female mice are very territorial and in the wild if a fight starts the loser normally has the chance to run for it.

^^^ also, they make lots of babies...

I've just started out breeding mice for my collection of ten permanent corns of my own and two non feeders I'm having a pop at for a friend.

I've had them a week and so far and have done even more research since getting them. I also euthanised my first adult today so I can share my findings from it all

I currently have two males and two females. I should have had five females but two were sexed wrongly. It was one of these I euthanised earlier as males can fight horribly when together. I used the cervical dislocation method and it went pretty smoothly.

So one of the females came to me most likely already pregnant. She looks it and acts it, and weighs 42g which is more than any of the other three. She is currently housed with one of the males whome I will remove before she delivers.
The other female is with the other male and fingers crossed is now pregnant. Again, he will be removed before she delivers.
I get all four out for communal, supervised play on a table top with loads of toys once a day in the evening. Aside from it being lovely for them (and for me to watch!) I am very conscience of keeping the two females happy together as I want them to live together in the future. The reason I haven't put them together yet is because I'm not 100% comfortable doing so close to one giving birth. I don't want to increase the risk of baby munching, and everything I've read so far suggests females need to be bonded well before they can be "nannies".

So the goal will be to *attempt* to sex the first two litters and all bucks will be culled. Aside from needing pinkies for three hatchlings, it's recommended litters be culled to manageable numbers for the mum to rear them. I will then allow all females to reach adulthood and probably keep some more to breed so I can cycle the females as that's better for them than constantly producing litters.
I will then keep a colony of does and two separated bucks (one for back up) and they'll be housed in a roomy cupboard to combat any marking odour. Also a third enclosure to act as a "shag pad" so not all does are impregnated at once!

I currently have two enclosures in my living room and can honestly say the smell produced is minimal and nothing a scented candle can't cover up if need be. We had visitors yesterday who couldn't smell a thing so I was pretty happy with that.
Constant cleaning out of bedding only encourages males to scent everywhere again anyway, so I spot clean and remove any obvious wet bedding.
I'm currently using up what they came with, but will be swapping to this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/BW-Aubiose-...e=UTF8&qid=1447346829&sr=1-1&keywords=auboise

You can't complain about 20kg for under £20, so I can't understand people who say they'd spend the same amount of money on bedding as they would on pre frozen rodents? I got three water bottles for under £5 and I feed a mixed diet including seeds and dog kibbles. I'm also offering my pregnant-for-sure female some scrambled eggs and can't say it's costing me a lot at all!

In my experience of breeding rodents and buying frozen thawed.. Frozen thawed wins every time!

I'm a little biased, I'm not a huge rodent fan. The general upkeep its more than corns, and rodents can be cannibalistic! My phase of attempting to breed my own feeders ended pretty quickly when I realized I was actually spending more money to feed my snakes than if I bough frozen thawed in bulk.. and that I was taking on more than I could chew!

Of course if you like rodents and want to breed them for their colors go for it! Just realize that you are also caring for another species of animal that has its own needs and time requirement.

Since this thread was active last, I have wrapped up the mouse operation. I wouldn't say it was a disaster, since I have enough frozen mice for my 5 snakes for about a year. But the time it took to care for the mice was absolutely ridiculous every day, compared to how low maintenance the snakes are. By the time I use up these mice, my snakes will all be eating regular adults and I will be able to buy in bulk.

Rigby & Marcy said:

Since this thread was active last, I have wrapped up the mouse operation. I wouldn't say it was a disaster, since I have enough frozen mice for my 5 snakes for about a year. But the time it took to care for the mice was absolutely ridiculous every day, compared to how low maintenance the snakes are. By the time I use up these mice, my snakes will all be eating regular adults and I will be able to buy in bulk.

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Oh boy, I didn't even notice how old this thread was! Glad you have a stock pile of feeders!! I had a little "honeymoon period" when I had a short stint of breeding feeders years back. I came to the same conclusions you did! Now I am so thankful for people who take the time to breed rodents and humanly euthanize them!

Never worth it !
As discussed in other threads as this one IT"S THE SMELL !!!uke02:

Really, if you got one snake then $2-3 every week for a feeder from a local chain is minimal.
At 5 snakes then I'd buy from Big Cheese Rodents. 100 adult mice (25 @ $17.50) plus $29 shipping drops your cost to a dollar each. Vacuum sealed so they will be fine over a 5 month period. :licklips:

Now breeding Dubia cockroaches for my lizards is worth it !! No smell, can't climb, escapees can't live here and easy to feed. :cheers: