just how fast does it take snakes to get scale rot anyhow?

Originally Posted by Nanci

Who ?

I've sent them a message asking if it's alright if I use them as an example here. As soon as I get the OK, I'll give you the names

Originally Posted by Lyreiania

No Nanci. I appreciate the comments given, even though this thread was to find out how quickly scale rot develops; its incubation period. What irritated me was the tone of what was written, NOT the substance of what was written even when it was off topic; there is a big difference between the two. Differences of opinion and belief do not trouble me; posts that come across as sanctimonious, accusatory, and inflammatory do. Appreciating what was written does not need I have to implement what to me does not make sense based on my own observations.

You quoted where I posted they ate less, in a meal in March and tried to imply that proved stress, as I wrote snakes stressed likely would not eat. Male snakes in isolation often go on a springtime hunger strike; the fact that cohabiting male snakes ate less in spring does not suffice to show overwhelming stress. If they ate less in a NON mating season, maybe then I would give your example some credence.

The false analogy of cohabitating to dog fighting made it clear to me that for some posters, this issue was more of an emotional one than it was one of logic or reason. I trust what I see. And, what I see of my snakes says they are fine as they are housed.

You asked the incubation period of scale rot. Fine. But most of us have never ever had it before. Why is that? And why have your snakes had it more than once? And since we have never had it before how the hell are we supposed to know the incubation?? So, we tell you the most likely reason why, and you state that it can't be the reason, and you refuse to change.
Well, if you won't listen, why bloody ask?

Originally Posted by Isoldael

I've sent them a message asking if it's alright if I use them as an example here. As soon as I get the OK, I'll give you the names

Great idea! It will alert the proper European keepers who to steer clear of. Brilliant!

Would you not say that for WHATEVER REASON, whether natural or unnatural, stress is counter-productive to health? (They say that about humans, too. We might be stressed from moving to a new home, a marriage, a birth, and though these are joyful occasions, that stress is _still_ considered harmful to our health). Yes, we know that some males are so frantic in their search for a mate, that they stop eating. Just the springtime search for a mate is stressful. Add to that the self-imposed cessation of regular feeding, for weeks or months. Add to that the stress of living with a competitor, for mates, territory, food, shelter- _that_ is unnatural. No stress is good stress.

Originally Posted by starsevol

Sad that strangers care more about her snakes than she does......but it goes to show, some people refuse to see what is in front of them, and prefer lousy husbandry practices, over listening to people who know more than they do....

If you had substance to your argument, you would not need to reply with a personal attack. Saying I dont care about the snakes is one. If I did not care about them, Id not have posted the situation. I had no idea that caring for pets meant I did only what YOU approved. <sarcasm>

I see what is in front of me; two snakes enjoying their huge well cared for terrarium.

It is sad that instead of an exchange of ideas and opinions, this is degenerating into insults and attacks.

Originally Posted by Lyreiania

If you had substance to your argument, you would not need to reply with a personal attack. Saying I dont care about the snakes is one. If I did not care about them, Id not have posted the situation. I had no idea that caring for pets meant I did only what YOU approved. <sarcasm>

I see what is in front of me; two snakes enjoying their huge well cared for terrarium.

It is sad that instead of an exchange of ideas and opinions, this is degenerating into insults and attacks.

....and you have been told that what you are doing is contributing to their poor health, but you won't change.
This is not about me, or you. This is about animals that SCIENCE states should live alone.
Is their terrarium bedroom sized? If not, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Hear that sound? It is your name being added to numerous DNST/DNBF lists alllllll over the interwebz!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Nanci

Would you not say that for WHATEVER REASON, whether natural or unnatural, stress is counter-productive to health? (They say that about humans, too. We might be stressed from moving to a new home, a marriage, a birth, and though these are joyful occasions, that stress is _still_ considered harmful to our health). Yes, we know that some males are so frantic in their search for a mate, that they stop eating. Just the springtime search for a mate is stressful. Add to that the self-imposed cessation of regular feeding, for weeks or months. Add to that the stress of living with a competitor, for mates, territory, food, shelter- _that_ is unnatural. No stress is good stress.

Lyre, answer this please.

It is obvious to anyone reading this thread that what I said is true. You really don't care about them. You say you know the pros and cons....well please enlighten me. Please tell me how co habbing benefits the SNAKE?? I seem to have missed that part.

I think it was mentioned somewhere but I am not finding it, how old are the two snakes with scale rot?

To the OP....

In your Original post.... you describe the enclosure as being 6 ft long By 18 Inches wide. Can I assume the Height dimension is either 18 or 24 inches?

Now...I'm Not sure what you paid for said enclosure.....But i'm rather Positive you could have bought a 10 tub rack system with belly heat...for $440.00 Shipped from Animal Plastics. Add an Extra $100.00 for the 10 tubs, and your total...is $540.00.

I'm Almost positive...unless you built the enclosure....the price tag was comparable to the rack system i described.

My point is....

They don't Miss one another...they don't "Love" one Another...and the Darned sure don't "Love" You...or me...or anyone else who keeps snakes.

This whole thread is a classic case of a person wanting to keep animals to fill a personal need or void in ones life....And the Needs of the animals in question fall by the wayside.

On a side note......

I've kept Corns, Bp's and Kingsnakes.... I've never once seen scale rot.

In closing....

I'm not saying I'm better than you....or better at keeping snakes....or that your a Horrible keeper, Just that those of us who have responded to this thread saw the red-flag. Co-habbed Snakes, suffering some form of disease.

Did you honestly think you wouldn't ruffle a few feathers?

Separate the Snakes.

keep'em clean, & Dry.

Far fewer issues.

My two-cents.... for what it's worth.

Want to see some stressed out snakes? Take a look at the racks of adults who get a breath of fresh air only when their containers pulled out for feeding or cleaning. How about snakes being brumated for over a year just because their offspring are not wanted or needed and doing so lightens the work load and lowers the feeding bill? How about snakes kept in deli cups for a year? How about the stress some venders' snakes endure going from show to show? Those who know me also know that I am not referring to all breeders and vendors. But the items mentioned above were either witnessed by myself or described to me by the "guilty" parties.

I guess what really bothers me is that someone like the OP can be ripped to shreds for being cruel, the entire country the Netherlands can be deemed unfit to own snakes (OK. That may be stretching the issue a little.), and when someone who boasts of hatching thousands of snakes posts a photo it is invariably followed by dozens of ooohs and ahhhs, congratulations, and pm's arranging purchases. How can people who hold their animals in such high regard and feel so strongly about animal cruelty have such double standards? If these were dogs such large breeding operations would be called puppy mills and their operators would be shunned if not arrested. At the very least their animals would be taken away from them. Probably the result of a phone call from one of us.

What about the large number of "by-product" snakes that weren't fortunate enough to inherit the target genetics? Does anyone really think these thousands of snakes get placed in quality homes? Does anyone know that many of these baby corn snakes end up as food items for coral snakes, king snakes, cobras, and other animals?

I have snakes in racks. I check every container every day. If you have any doubts about my husbandry practices shoot an email to the only person I can think of whose opinion might carry some weight with some of you; Jeff Galewood, Sr. of JMG Reptiles. I have wholesaled hatchlings, and quite frankly it is bothersome to me. It is not, however, as bothersome as the fact that I see so many people exhibit double standards. If you care about snakes as much as you claim to start recognizing that the breeders some you hold in such high regard as not good stewards of their animals. Look beyond the fact that someone produces the coolest corns on the planet this year and hold them accountable to the same standards you hold someone to who cohabs two snakes and encounters a problem.