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Purist Breeders

Carpe Serpentis said:
Alaskan Klee Kai ring a bell Starsevol?
Click to expand...

Um, nope.

So, what has been accomplished here?
We have established that the progeny of snakes that have been in captivity since the 1950s really cannot be tracked back to their wild counterparts.

We have reestablished that carpe's dna and paternity test idea is still an utter joke.

We have reestablised that hybriziders that dump pure looking stock are to blame for the death of the corn snake species in captivity, despite carpe saying that people who buy snakes with the intent to breed them need to verify that the snake is what the seller says it is.

Minds have not been changed on either side, except that fantasies of humanely destroying millions of hybrid monsters will probably be in my dreams tonight.

People who took carpe off of ignore have learned their lesson and put him back where he belongs.

Carpe has reestblished himself as a tireless hybrid excuser and promoter.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
As for your diamond analogy and a hybridizer trying to sell you a hybrid as a pure specimen. I don't think hybridizers are trying to sell you hybrids as pure snakes. I think breeders are trying to sell hybrids to you as pure snakes. So, its a faulty analogy. I think this happens because breeders don't know or question the lineage of their snakes. If it looks like a corn then its a corn. If thats your standard role with it and I applaud it.
Click to expand...

So what to hybridizers do with by products? By products don't look like the target, but if they look like the pure parent a hybridizer will sell it anyway he can, or dump it with a wholesaler.
 
starsevol said:
That first paragraph is completely and totally false. Pedigree dogs are NEVER bred to make mutts with other breeds.
I don't think you are as smart as you think you are.....
Click to expand...

I guess some idiot's would, just like the snake thing.

See, I happen to know a little something about AKC registered dog breeds,...specifically show-quality breeds. My mother was a very highly respected and well-known breeder of Standard Schnauzers, and then for the next 30 plus years Miniature Whire-Haired Dachshunds acquired from the winningest Dachshund of all-time in the entire world (in 1969).

She was an AKC certified show judge, professional handler, obedience trainer, Chair-person president of the South Florida Dauchshund Club of America, show-coat Terrier groomer, and when she passed away in 2006, the show dedicated an entire "Parade of Champions" of her champion bloodline in her honor that were owned and shown by many others. Since 1958, she and other like-minded peers never ONCE bred another type of dog into their pure-bred show-quality stock to make a mutt and pass off as a AKC pure-bred line!!!.........NOT ONCE!........that is simply pure BS!.

This is just one example of her "DasTropen" champion stock that was acquired by her friend in Alaska and became a finnished champion as well. There were countless other finished champions that she produced over the years. She was into quality showdogs like I am into quality snakes. :)

http://www.buenavistadogs.com/index_files/Page673.htm




~Doug
 
As for your continued lame blaming of hybridizers forcing their hybrid stock into your pure specimens that you and others breed. I don't buy it anymore than someone who states they found a dog in the wild and it looked like a purebreed so they were forced to breed it to their pure breeds. You choose what you breed with... not some hybridizer.
 
starsevol said:
So what to hybridizers do with by products? By products don't look like the target, but if they look like the pure parent a hybridizer will sell it anyway he can, or dump it with a wholesaler.
Click to expand...

.........BINGO!!!

no more needs to be said there.


~Doug
 
starsevol said:
So what to hybridizers do with by products? By products don't look like the target, but if they look like the pure parent a hybridizer will sell it anyway he can, or dump it with a wholesaler.
Click to expand...

Your making an assumption here. There is such a thing called culling that many breeders and hybriders do with their stock. There are other options as well, but to make it look like all hybridizers are simply going to sell their pure looking stock as pure is simply a crazy overgeneralization.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
As for your continued lame blaming of hybridizers forcing their hybrid stock into your pure specimens that you and others breed. I don't buy it anymore than someone who states they found a dog in the wild and it looked like a purebreed so they were forced to breed it to their pure breeds. You choose what you breed with... not some hybridizer.
Click to expand...

Wen someone sells an animal AS A CORNSNAKE and it is bred and is not a cornsnake, that is no where near finding a dog in the wild that looks like a poodle.

Carpe Serpentis said:
Your making an assumption here. There is such a thing called culling that many breeders and hybriders do with their stock. There are other options as well, but to make it look like all hybridizers are simply going to sell their pure looking stock as pure is simply a crazy overgeneralization.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but nope. It's not. If it "looks" pure and they can make money off of it, why cull it? Anyone who would trick a snake into breeding with something it wouldn't and shouldn't is capable of just about anything.....
 
starsevol said:
Wen someone sells an animal AS A CORNSNAKE and it is bred and is not a cornsnake, that is no where near finding a dog in the wild that looks like a poodle.



Sorry, but nope. It's not. If it "looks" pure and they can make money off of it, why cull it? Anyone who would trick a snake into breeding with something it wouldn't and shouldn't is capable of just about anything.....
Click to expand...

Why be sell something for something its not?

If your going to cry that some people are dishonest... I'll agree with you. There are many who will intentionally mislead you to make a dollar whether they are hybridizers or simply breeders. You can't make a distinction and say all hybridizers are bad just like you can't make a distinction and say all breeders are bad and dishonest. That is why you must take your own precautions and deal with trustworthy people with pedigrees or not... but at least trust them. If your dealing with someone you don't know, don't trust, and get taken.... I can't say I didn't see it coming.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
As for your continued lame blaming of hybridizers forcing their hybrid stock into your pure specimens that you and others breed. I don't buy it anymore than someone who states they found a dog in the wild and it looked like a purebreed so they were forced to breed it to their pure breeds. You choose what you breed with... not some hybridizer.
Click to expand...

Hybridizers force nothing on me, or have jack-squat to do with what I maintain and breed here. However, hybridizers ARE a HUUUUUGE undeniable SOURCE of why they are everywhere in the hobby mainstream.......whether people can, or cannot distinguish them from authentic ones.......stop the insane "tip-toeing" around that part.

Maybe society should blame the parent for the kid that gets hold of and smokes some meth and OD's rather than the source that MADE the crap garbage to sell to the kid in the first place! Yeah,....always someone ELSES problem or responsibility the way you are always describing. You also know full-damn well that I think people should be FAR more knowledgeable than they are when it comes to wanting to be a "pro" breeder too without knowing JACK about what they are doing beforehand.

You are constantly playing any side of the fence with this issue to keep this hybrid thread going strong, which WAS your whole intent from the very beginning.....so well-done there..LOL!


~Doug
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Why be sell something for something its not?

If your going to cry that some people are dishonest... I'll agree with you. There are many who will intentionally mislead you to make a dollar whether they are hybridizers or simply breeders. You can't make a distinction and say all hybridizers are bad just like you can't make a distinction and say all breeders are bad and dishonest. That is why you must take your own precautions and deal with trustworthy people with pedigrees or not... but at least trust them. If your dealing with someone you don't know, don't trust, and get taken.... I can't say I didn't see it coming.
Click to expand...

The POINT of creating hybrids is to make something different.
The misguided people who want something different won't settle for a hybrid that looks pure.
If you are a HYBRID breeder, and half of your mutts look pure, you sell them as pure because if they look pure no one will ever know, and no hybrid buyer would ever want them.
 
Deal with people you trust and stop blaming hybridizers for getting taken. There are more than enough snakes for everyone to have their own niche or niches and be friends. That is all I am trying to say. The fewer precautions you take the more likely it is that your going to get taken. I'd love to live in an ideal world where everyone was honest and everyone took meticulous records and all corn snakes could be traced back to the wild. We don't live in that world.

Purists have not kept meticulous records of all the corn snake morphs back to their wild caught specimens. Fact.

Fact, hybridizers do not choose who you choose to buy corn snakes from.

Fact, you either take precautions or you get burned, pregnant, or otherwise end up buying a zirconium or a cheap imitation rolex.

Blaming others for your not taking precautions isn't going to get you anywhere and perhaps you can argue that anyone can be taken and I'll agree with you. But when you get taken... what do you do? You continue to breed those hybrids into your pure snakes without keeping track of their lineages? If you do that... you are a part of the problem your attacking. I'd much rather simply take responsibility and realize... yes, I may get burned so whats my back up plan. Luckily for me, I just like pretty so I'm easier to please.
 
DMong said:
Hybridizers force nothing on me, or have jack-squat to do with what I maintain and breed here. However, hybridizers ARE a HUUUUUGE undeniable SOURCE of why they are everywhere in the hobby mainstream.......whether people can, or cannot distinguish them from authentic ones.......stop the insane "tip-toeing" around that part.

Maybe society should blame the parent for the kid that gets hold of and smokes some meth and OD's rather than the source that MADE the crap garbage to sell to the kid in the first place! Yeah,....always someone ELSES problem or responsibility the way you are always describing. You also know full-damn well that I think people should be FAR more knowledgeable than they are when it comes to wanting to be a "pro" breeder too without knowing JACK about what they are doing beforehand.

You are constantly playing any side of the fence with this issue to keep this hybrid thread going strong, which WAS your whole intent from the very beginning.....so well-done there..LOL!


~Doug
Click to expand...

That pretty much sums it up right there!
 
starsevol said:
The POINT of creating hybrids is to make something different.
The misguided people who want something different won't settle for a hybrid that looks pure.
If you are a HYBRID breeder, and half of your mutts look pure, you sell them as pure because if they look pure no one will ever know, and no hybrid buyer would ever want them.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there may be people like that in the world just like I'm sure there are people that will probably sell you a corn that has a list of possible hets that there is simply no way it has.

With that being said and we understand we will never get rid of dishonest people... whether they be breeders or hybridizers... do we continue to blame and act like helpless victims or do we stand up and take responsibility for our own collections. Install safety alarms, fences, security guards, etc? You see, I think that while we can not prevent all harm. We can have safety measures in place. Something like... I realize this is a hybrid, I'm not going to breed this anymore if thats my thing. Or, this is a suspect snake and I really want to breed pure corns... let me go out in the wild and get one or go to a reputable breeder instead of some back alley thug who is selling you a rolex that isn't quite on the up and up.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Deal with people you trust and stop blaming hybridizers for getting taken. There are more than enough snakes for everyone to have their own niche or niches and be friends. That is all I am trying to say. The fewer precautions you take the more likely it is that your going to get taken. I'd love to live in an ideal world where everyone was honest and everyone took meticulous records and all corn snakes could be traced back to the wild. We don't live in that world.

Purists have not kept meticulous records of all the corn snake morphs back to their wild caught specimens. Fact.

Fact, hybridizers do not choose who you choose to buy corn snakes from.

Fact, you either take precautions or you get burned, pregnant, or otherwise end up buying a zirconium or a cheap imitation rolex.

Blaming others for your not taking precautions isn't going to get you anywhere and perhaps you can argue that anyone can be taken and I'll agree with you. But when you get taken... what do you do? You continue to breed those hybrids into your pure snakes without keeping track of their lineages? If you do that... you are a part of the problem your attacking. I'd much rather simply take responsibility and realize... yes, I may get burned so whats my back up plan. Luckily for me, I just like pretty so I'm easier to please.
Click to expand...

Personally, ANY snake I breed is from someone I trust, and in most cases I knew where the parents of those snakes came from as well.
But what about the ancestors down the line? What about the kids breeding pet shop snakes who don't know a hypo from a trundlefart? (sorry Nanci).

Sorry, I think that the creators of the crap need to be blamed.
 
DMong said:
Glad you liked and can appreciate that awesome top-quality Dauchshund bloodline Bethany!

:) :)


~Doug
Click to expand...

Doug darlin', that was Josh who said that! But, I appreciate that gorgeous dog as well. Nice to see a well bred animal. :)

Carpe Serpentis said:
I'm sure there may be people like that in the world just like I'm sure there are people that will probably sell you a corn that has a list of possible hets that there is simply no way it has.

With that being said and we understand we will never get rid of dishonest people... whether they be breeders or hybridizers... do we continue to blame and act like helpless victims or do we stand up and take responsibility for our own collections. Install safety alarms, fences, security guards, etc? You see, I think that while we can not prevent all harm. We can have safety measures in place. Something like... I realize this is a hybrid, I'm not going to breed this anymore if thats my thing. Or, this is a suspect snake and I really want to breed pure corns... let me go out in the wild and get one or go to a reputable breeder instead of some back alley thug who is selling you a rolex that isn't quite on the up and up.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't buy from people I don't know. But if people didn't breed the garbage in the first place, it wouldn't be there to do the damage it does.

You are a broken record.
 
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