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Copperhead in the barn.........How do we handle this??!!?

ghosthousecorns said:
Not the way I hold tools. I don't know how other people hold their garden tools but I can stand at the end of a push broom and sweep or push with the entire length of the handle between myself and the snake. In order to dispatch it with a hoe I need to hold the handle closer in to about halfway point to have any leverage, thus cutting the distance between myself and the snake by half as compared to the broom. If I wanted to use a shovel, I would pretty much have to stand right by the snake's head.
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The first sentence made me laugh.
But for your last sentence, (I) wouldn't have to stand next to the snake, I could swing it overhead and cull the snake with on blow.

But believe they had to do what they had to do to protect the young childred and live stock. Maybe next time it will go better for the snake.
But if I were in there shoes not knowing how to handle hots...
I would to cull it be for it harm my children.
You don't get to many seconds chances with hots.
 
Good discussions all around...

Snakemaster24 - I applaud your love for animals, I really do. I love them as well. But there is a balance between people and animals.

No hard feelings...
 
xreinx said:
I live in alaska, I worked for naturalists, do you know what I did for them? I guarded them from bears. some of them think as you do, but a vast majority thought human life was more important.
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But they do not shoot the bear on site. You didnt kill a bear because it was ignoring you at 100 yards. You backed up slowly and left the area.

snakes are important, all animals are important, yes. but so is human life. if that snake wasent in the barn, Im sure they would have left it alone.. but it was IN the barn, WITH the kids.. how is that Not dire? (this out of a person that works with scared and frightened dogs, (been bitten 3 times in the last 7 years none of the bites were dire (nearly lost the tip of a finger during one of those bites BUT.. no venom was involved) it isnt dire until its dire, a childs life is more important then a snakes. im glad your for the snake, I would be too. IF it wasent so close to those kids.
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I agree that a Child's life is more important than the snake's, will never disagree with any one. But the children left the Barn and got someone who killed the snake. The children were not in danger. The snake left them alone, probably didnt strike but probably sat there. And again, was it a copperhead? To many people freak think other species are copperheads.
I have been in this hobby longer than most here. I have been working with animals and have done rescues and rehabs.

And the sad part is David is approaching this Conversation logically and with passion. He is looking at the big picture and you people are attacking him. To be honest, i think David is growing to be a good man, he will be the type of herper who will talk to his kids about the animals and to back away and leave them alone or get him and he will move the animal.

And David, Mike does have kids, they are all biters though.
 
tricksterpup said:
But they do not shoot the bear on site. You didnt kill a bear because it was ignoring you at 100 yards. You backed up slowly and left the area.



I agree that a Child's life is more important than the snake's, will never disagree with any one. But the children left the Barn and got someone who killed the snake. The children were not in danger. The snake left them alone, probably didnt strike but probably sat there. And again, was it a copperhead? To many people freak think other species are copperheads.
I have been in this hobby longer than most here. I have been working with animals and have done rescues and rehabs.

And the sad part is David is approaching this Conversation logically and with passion. He is looking at the big picture and you people are attacking him. To be honest, i think David is growing to be a good man, he will be the type of herper who will talk to his kids about the animals and to back away and leave them alone or get him and he will move the animal.

And David, Mike does have kids, they are all biters though.
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Thanks Jim. And don't insult my children. They are just troubled.
 
tricksterpup said:
I agree that a Child's life is more important than the snake's, will never disagree with any one. But the children left the Barn and got someone who killed the snake. The children were not in danger. The snake left them alone, probably didnt strike but probably sat there. And again, was it a copperhead? To many people freak think other species are copperheads.
I have been in this hobby longer than most here. I have been working with animals and have done rescues and rehabs.

And the sad part is David is approaching this Conversation logically and with passion. He is looking at the big picture and you people are attacking him. To be honest, i think David is growing to be a good man, he will be the type of herper who will talk to his kids about the animals and to back away and leave them alone or get him and he will move the animal.

And David, Mike does have kids, they are all biters though.
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The kids could play in the barn/hay and get bit latter.
it's a 50/50 call here I think, being in there shoes at the time.

As for the logically call... passion and matured yea but not alway logically.
 
You're all talking about encountering a venomous snake as only having two options. Kill it, or leave it alone.

John 3:16, do an internet search for people who capture and relocate wild animals in your area, wildlife rehabilitators, veterinarians, and even local pet stores can sometimes help you get into contact with these people. Keep in mind that they may be willing to travel, so even if they're located out of town you may have some luck.

That way, the next time you encounter a venomous snake you can call them if it's an emergency and the snake needs to go! Or, practice methods of handling snakes without getting bit by trying it on your own snakes. The broom handle/trash can method is an easy one.

As far as the ethics of this whole thing, my thoughts are this.

First, we are going into the territory of a wild animal who is just trying to survive. Under no circumstances should anyone assume that just because an animal can kill you that it is out to get you. In the case of venomous snakes, if you get bit, it is your fault. Even if you were wandering around and stepped on it by accident, if you are in an area were dangerous snakes are known to live you should be extremely careful, if not avoid the area all together.

Second, as an animal venomous snakes deserve a chance at life. They are beneficial to ecosystems. Because of this, relocation is almost always the best option. If you are trained in the handling of dangerous snakes and are confident in your skills, then relocating it by yourself would be great assuming you have an area were the snake can go were it will not come into contact with humans in the foreseeable future. If you are not trains in the handling of dangerous snakes, get into contact with someone who is and have them remove the snake.

Now, nether of those are ALWAYS an option but more often than not they ARE, and I think people should keep that in mind.
 
VickyChaiTea said:
In the case of venomous snakes, if you get bit, it is your fault. Even if you were wandering around and stepped on it by accident, if you are in an area were dangerous snakes are known to live you should be extremely careful, if not avoid the area all together.
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How do you avoid a barn that you own and work in all the time, or a back yard that your children play in?

Is it my fault for stepping on a snake that I didn't see when stepping off my back porch?
 
Well, seeing as how snakes have been living in that area long before you have, you went into their territory. If you live in an area that is known to have dangerous snakes and you CAN'T avoid it, try relocating the animals or dettering them.
 
VickyChaiTea said:
Well, seeing as how snakes have been living in that area long before you have, you went into their territory. If you live in an area that is known to have dangerous snakes and you CAN'T avoid it, try relocating the animals or dettering them.
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..Relocating tends to be dangerous/deadly for the snake since they won't know where the hibernation areas are. There also isn't much you can do to deter reptiles.
 
VickyChaiTea said:
John 3:16, do an internet search for people who capture and relocate wild animals in your area, wildlife rehabilitators, veterinarians, and even local pet stores can sometimes help you get into contact with these people. Keep in mind that they may be willing to travel, so even if they're located out of town you may have some luck.
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If you read the thread, they did now find someone that is willing and able to come relocate any other snakes that they find in the vicinity, so they do have a plan for next time.

I think the biggest thing this thread has done (besides some interesting conversation) is make those that may not have considered having a plan if they encounter a venomous snake to consider having something in place.

For example KNOWING where an empty trashcan and broom is, if the snake is in an area where it could be easily moved. (In a barn full of bales with loose hay everywhere, not exactly an easy task)

Seeking out and knowing IN ADVANCE, someone you can call to remove a venomous snake.

My advice to J3 was to ask around town, there's almost always a loony snake guy that's willing to come out and move snakes, especially in out of the way hicktowns. WHich they did and they found someone! So that is awesome.

Snakemaster, in all due respect, one day it will be your children... Whatever life experience you *think* you have, it all changes when you have your own babies.

My seven year old has ADHD and sensory issues. As part of that he has very very little impulse control. He's grown up around dogs, even powerful breeds such as pitbulls. I've DRILLED into him from day one, DO NOT ever EVER touch or approach an unknown dog, and he still has problems, he doesn't think, he just acts. He LOVES my snakes, and handles my ball python, however I still always have to remind him to move slowly and carefully, and he's GROWN UP around snakes... He needs constant supervision, and I am glad that we now live in an area where there are no poisonous snakes, because he is so fascinated with them that I am not %100 sure that he would act the way that J3's kids did and come get me if he saw a snake, he could very easily get carried away and try and catch it...

Depending on the circumstances, I would attempt to relocate a hot if I came across one, but I also would not hesitate for a SECOND to dispatch said snake if it was in an area that wasn't safe to try and capture it.

Older children yes, are capable of making a rational decision and being careful of said snake, but it still is NOT is a safe area, for it or the children, and younger children under age 5, do not have the maturity to make a common sense decision about a snake, and often do not have the maturity to always be on the lookout for one. They have one track minds and very little common sense. A MATURE six year old MIGHT be able to make a rational decision, but I can assure you that most children this age or younger do not yet have the capability of such decisions.

I found this site:

http://www.copperhead-snake.com/

in particular please take a look at the pictures halfway down the page of the results of a snakebit to a FINGER... Copperhead venom is hemolytic, it actually causes cells to EXPLODE, causing severe damage. This will leave lasting scars, permanent damage, and probably chronic pain...

I understand that the chances of a bite are low, however, is the damage you see on the page above something that you are willing to inflict on your little niece/nephew that you mentioned caring for?

I think that is all that people are getting riled up about, is the fact that you seem to not care at all about the damage that snake could cause, your ideals are somewhat "rose tinted" and live and let live is certainly a great way to approach things, but understand that ATTACKING a parent for protecting their children is very low class.

The OP has a plan for next time, they are obviously concerned with the wildlife they encounter, which is why they posted here in the first place wanting to know how they could avoid killing the next hot snake they find, for which I commend them! They did the right thing with their current knowledge and next time a snake they encounter might get lucky and be relocated to a safer location.
 
VickyChaiTea said:
Well, seeing as how snakes have been living in that area long before you have, you went into their territory. If you live in an area that is known to have dangerous snakes and you CAN'T avoid it, try relocating the animals or dettering them.
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Lots of animals lived in the U.S. before we English, German, Irish, African, Indian, Swedish, Australian, Italian, Greek, you name it moved to this wonderful country.

Lots of animals died, habitat destroyed for the neighborhood that you live in. For the roads that you drive on. For the factories that processed the foods you eat every day.

Do you enjoy your computer? How many animals died by the process that gave you that computer? The factory destroying habitat. The miles and miles of asphalt for the delivery trucks to drive on, possibly killing innocent snakes at night just trying to warm themselves on the road. And on and on and on.

Your argument, though true, is hypocritical. I am not saying this to be mean, but to bring to light that if one lives in a neighborhood, wears leather shoes, eats processed foods, drives a car, eats at Burger King, uses a computer, works in 99% of the jobs out there, went to school, etc... Animals died for that.

Animals that were here long before us.

It all seems so noble when looking at it microscopically. But the arguments don't hold up if one is part of society, ENJOYING the benefits and luxeries of medical and technilogical advancements that we enjoy.
 
Knox, wow, I never said killing animals was wrong. So no, this is NOT hypocritical.

I'm just saying that if you encounter a dangerous animal your first instinct should not be to kill it just because it's in the same area you are. :/
 
John3:16 said:
Now I'm getting kinda tired of people going on about this poor snake...
My post was about what to do NEXT time.....
I have solved this problem....hopefully..assuming that this college kid will drive 2hrs round trip from the nearest town to move the next hot I find.

I mean seriously people..telling NOOBs to move a HOT??!?!?!
Or just leave it in the barn so the children can get bit next time they gather eggs??!?!?!?!!?!?
Seriously??!?!?!!?
Come on.......:nope:
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Well, then why are you complaining? You asked for options, you got them. Kill it, move it, leave it, find help. Or a fifth option, move yourself. The first two are pointless as the snake, or a different snake, will move back into the area. The third would involve drilling it into your kids' heads that touching the local wildlife is bad. Which is a pretty good idea regardless of what you do to the next hot you find. The fifth I assume is not on the table.

Really, I don't see the point in killing or moving the snake. Yes, it's a danger to your kids. So is the snake sitting out in the grass that you haven't come across yet. If there was a snake in your barn, you can bet there are more outside. Plus I think brown recluse spiders live in TN? Pretty much the only thing you can do is educate your kids, do it a lot, and hope it sticks. :shrugs:
 
VickyChaiTea said:
Knox, wow, I never said killing animals was wrong. So no, this is NOT hypocritical.

I'm just saying that if you encounter a dangerous animal your first instinct should not be to kill it just because it's in the same area you are. :/
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Well, if it's not wrong, what's wrong with killing an animal that has the potential to hospitalize an innocent child for doing nothing but walking around their own property?

I am not pointing this at you as an individual, seriously. I just don't understand people getting all upset when a venemous creature is killed for the sake of protecting people.

And as stated above, relocation often dooms the snake to death anyway - but a slow, starvation or dehydration.

If relocating can cause the death of the snake, and keeping it around risks thousands of dollars in hospital bills and possible permanent tissue damage or death, the most humane solution seems to be a quick death.
 
AZHKETH, the point in killing the snake is that you KNOW that particular snake will never have the opportunity to hospitalize a little girl.

Same reason I kill every Black Widow I find in my garage. Sure, there are hundreds more in my yard, but at least THAT one is not ever going to bite me and cause me to miss work and pay out the wazoo for pain meds as I writhe in agony in the hospital.

My brother was bitten by a widow. I never want to go through that.
 
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