Opinions on WC

Just one other comment as far as benefits to the animal if wild caught. Many people have the same feelings about capturing hawks from the wild. Here in the U.S. many laws require that the hawks are captured from the wild and not purchased, at least while you're an apprentice. The fact is, that almost 90% of hawks in the wild, die before they reach breeding age. Many falconers return their hawks to the wild after they've reached breeding age, ensuring the further growth of the species. Hawks captured in the wild, "tamed" and then released, do just fine. It's actually beneficial to the species to be captured. Snakes are similar. They instinctively know how to hunt and hide. I am certainly against mass capture of wild species for the sake of profit, and I'm appalled by the continued "Rattlesnake Round-up" that goes on in Texas every year for that matter. But for someone to go out and gather a few wild specimens for strengthening their breed, or purely for pleasure, does not bother me at all. I would have given my right arm to have been able to keep some of the gopher snakes and such that I caught as a kid, but mom said dogs, cats, rats, mice, turtles, and lizards were enough! I'm proud to say that I have 3 direct descendents of w/c locality Okeetees. They will be bred to continue the pure line, and it would have been sad not to have their beauty around.

I've been reading this one with interest and have a couple of comments I'd like to add...

Something that may affect the way we look at things over here in the UK (I apologise for the generalisation, other Brits please feel free to jump all over me for it) is the fact that we only have 3 snake species. None of them are common over the whole of the UK and all of them are protected by law. You are not allowed to collect them, you are not even technically supposed to move them. It probably seems like overkill, but that's because there are not many of them around. Seeing a snake in the wild to me would be a really big deal and the idea of there being so many around that they are easy to find and just take home with you, as some of you are able to do in the US, is pretty mind bending , lol.

Personally I'm not against managed collection of common species but its the 'controlled' aspect that makes me wary, how is it controlled?...laws are put in place, but they are not always followed and not always enforced, and how long until a 'common' species becomes less common?...Okay, for corn snakes this is less likely to happen any time soon if ever, but taking reptiles in general (and across the globe, not just the US) there must be species out there that are being threatened by over collection for the pet trade...

Its all a matter of control and reason. Taking in the circumstances of the species, changes in population and habitat range, and following laws that are put into place. They are there for the protection of the animals we love and admire and its up to us to respect that.

Okay, that was long and rambling from possibly the world's most infrequent poster. I hope it made some sense....

StubbyUK

"Oh and releasing CB into the wild IS an intersting idea, though nobody will try it I'm sure." -Itssnowingcorns

Didn't I say from my first post that I do this? :crazy02:

And Stubby, word has it that the 13 owners of the Okeetee Hunt Club are going to be the last to see it a wooded area full of quail. When their children inherit the property, it will almost certainly be developed. No more Okeetee, possibly in our lifetimes. There will still be lots of corns down there, but that is a LOT of habitiat lost. While there still is a ton of them, and habitat to spare, I say catch them and keep pure lines!

WC corn's do not need to be taken in large numbers these days however if we wish to avoid some of the problems which have cropped up in 'normal' pets (cats/dogs) due to close inbreeding etc then the addition of WC blood to the CB gene pool can only, IMHO, be a good thing providing we do not take more corns than nature can afford to lose (remember in the wild the hatchling survival rate isn't exactly good )

The only good snake is a dead snake.

Well, at least that is the opinion of MANY South Carolinians in my neck of the woods. I have seen people run over snakes on purpose! So, is taking a snake that is crossing the road really all that bad?

I am for collecting WC snakes. However, I think it should ONLY be done for breeding reasons NOT commercial Catch and Sell. Ironically, I do not currently own a WC corn. I do have F1 (and this year will give me f2) from WC but I do not own a WC corn. The adults I've had in the past have been given to friends to help them spice up their blood. Not everyone can go out and catch a corn. Ha ha you guys in CA!
Then again...I can't catch a cal king.

Mostly, though, I end up helping them cross the road or go back under the tin they came from and take the pictures with me.

If corns even CAN be "taken in large numbers," a lot of us would pay to learn how! Then I could cherry pick and be done with it! Seriously, it takes a lot of work; I'm talking hundreds of herping hours, to create a colony of unrelated corns. If you could drift net for them, I could see the backlash I get from folks on these forums. But I've spent a whole weekend in prime weather, turning every log, peeling bark, ripping thru stumps, only to find twenty small scarlet kings, three eastern kings, seven copperheads, a cottonmouth, and the only corn was dead in the road.
Granted, sometimes you might see three driving down a road on a cool night leaving your girlfriend's grandmother's house. But mass collection? That's funny stuff.

elrojo said:

Seriously, it takes a lot of work; I'm talking hundreds of herping hours, to create a colony of unrelated corns.

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I agree.

It is a hard job to collect them.

I still do not think that one should immediately sell every animal they catch just because they can. I LOVE the hobbiest's collecting and breeding. I just am not too fond of the money guys. In my opinion, the same people that catch a snake on the road and sell it are the same people that put them on cedar bedding or buy the 'cheap' adult ball python and think it is really going to eat.

And I'm not really getting onto corn collectors either. I don't like the commercial collectors. You know, the guys that pick up EVERY snake and try to sell it at some flea market somewhere. You know, the water snakes and ringnecks for 5 bucks.

I am glad to see that my fellow Carolina herpers have a some common sense.
:santa:

P.S. Hey Elrojo, next you go collecting Okeetees, can I tag along? I will hold the sack!

"Oh and releasing CB into the wild IS an intersting idea, though nobody will try it I'm sure." -Itssnowingcorns

Didn't I say from my first post that I do this?

Click to expand...

Yes, but your first post was way after I posted that.

Yes or no is too simple of answers. Every corn we own is descended from wild collected snakes. Period. You say it is wrong, but if you say a wild one that was a NEW morph crossing the road, would it be wrong to collect it?

How about all the researchers who only got interested in herps because of the snakes they collected as a CHILD and kept in captivity for years? I don't think snakes are just living stamps - their ecology is important, too.......and you learn more about that from wild ones!

...but habitat-destroying methods of wholesale collecting to produce more normals that are already surplus in captivity is hard to defend, too.

Yes or no is too black-or-white to be an viable answer!

I have caught, kept short term, and returned to the wild dozens of snakes over the years. I only have 3 permanent snakes as pets, though. Right now, I have 2 captive bred and 1 wild caught.

I have a captive bred Eastern King that has a Virginia blood-line bred by a breeder licensed to do so in Virginia. I have a captive bred Corn Snake whose parents were wild caught Corns from western Virginia (also bred and sold in compliance with state law). And I have a wild caught Eastern King I collected in Virginia.

I'm not against the taking of wild snakes - in extreme moderation. But I see no need for taking dozens of them. My state allows the taking and possession (for personal use only) of 5 of any non-protect species of snake. I can take and keep 5 king, 5 corns, 5 milks, and so on. What I can't do is capture them and sell them, breed them and sell the offspring without a permit, or give them away.

What I am against is someone coming into my state, taking wild snakes to use in their commercial breeding operations in another state. It happens a lot. Virginia's snakes belong to the citizens of Virginia, not out-of-state breeders. They belong to those state citizens that capture them within the law. The don't exist for the benefit of people that want to make a buck off them, or who don't contribute $$$ to the agencies in charge of conservation.

By the way, anyone that does collect snakes from the wild and goes posting their exploits willy-nilly all over the internet ought to consider that many snake web-sites are monitored by state wildlife law enforcement agencies who may come a-knockin' on your door if they suspect you are breaking the law.

WOW... someone went on an archaeological expedition to find this thread!!!

Oh look... King TUT!!!







































:crazy02:

:grin01: ----------------------------------

Die thread.... DIEEEE!

Regards.. Tim of T and J

Ack! Where's the "Depends on the Situation/Maybe" button?

I'm going to have to agree with previous posts. It entirely depends on the situation.

For me, who only has one corn snake and am not planning at all in the future to really get into breeding, I would probably say no just because I would feel a lot more comfortable with a captive bred snake.

For someone who does a lot of breeding, I would say yes just to keep new bloodlines and variety within the captive bred population.

It also greatly depends on the laws of the area, also mentioned above. Most of those laws were put in place to protect local populations and to ensure that a breeding population is able to be maintained in the wild. So, if someone were capturing wild snakes and selling them, that would greatly reduce the wild populations and would then be bad.

Tough question.