Rules are meant to be broken.....pattern "rules" of cornsnakes

There was a recent discussion on what defined a motley...clear belly, few belly checks, etc.

You can read more about it here:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=103981

Intrigued and having some down time, I went through some of the 2010 hatchlings to take some pictures to illustrate some of the "rules" we know in cornsnakes are not always as clear as they seem.


The first set of pictures is from a Normal het sunkissed, blood, anery, amel X same breeding. I produced a bunch of neat critters--including a sunkissed blood or three--but also got some "different" results....

First up in the picture line are all the heads....with the real blood red being the last one.

Then the belly pics...with the real bloodred being the last one.

I know, I know....you can see differences in the three...especially when you look at the belly, but those bald heads are interesting. Some say they are markers for the het or maybe they are influenced by the blood and sunkissed? I don't know. What I do know is there were quite a few of these baldies that had belly checks with this type of sunkissed/blood het pairing....more so than I normally see in other blood combos.

Okay...big deal, bald heads. Sure that is a blood trait but the checkered belly gives it away that it is probably not a blood. Right?

Well, how about this critter.....as far as I know there is no blood, motley, or stripe anywhere in the ancestry and I bred 8 females--all sisters--for this project and did not see a single blood, motley or stripe.


Where are the belly checks?

I'll go through more and post other "different" corns when I find more time....

If you've got some, post away!

Jeff, in the last pic of the true blood in post #2, do you not consider those to be belly checks?

Just curious because, long story short, I had a sulphur/butter clutch hatch that either had 100% clear bellies (sulphur) or a zippered belly (butter het blood), and then I had one that had a belly like that one. He has the classic blood head pattern, but I've labeled him, and just sold him, as not a blood but a het due to what I thought were checkers.

Originally Posted by MohrSnakes

First up in the picture line are all the heads....with the real blood red being the last one.

Originally Posted by MohrSnakes

Then the belly pics...with the real blood red being the last one.

Originally Posted by Blue Apple Herps

Jeff, in the last pic of the true blood in post #2, do you not consider those to be belly checks?

I should have added at the end of these sentances....."or is it"..... LOL

Originally Posted by Blue Apple Herps

Jeff, in the last pic of the true blood in post #2, do you not consider those to be belly checks?

Just curious because, long story short, I had a sulphur/butter clutch hatch that either had 100% clear bellies (sulphur) or a zippered belly (butter het blood), and then I had one that had a belly like that one. He has the classic blood head pattern, but I've labeled him, and just sold him, as not a blood but a het due to what I thought were checkers.

That is exactly it....what really defines a pattern mutation? Is that "true" blood that have really a blood red? It has a bald head, fairly uncheckered belly and diffused sides....but wait, there are some belly checks. Interesting....

Well, many so-called Mendelian genes show intermediate levels of expression. For example, cystic fibrosis in people. Homozygotes get the big, bad disease. Heterozygores are carriers and allegedly don't have any problems, but the incidence of pancreatitis, inflammation of the pancreas, is MUCH higher in heterozygotes than in non-carriers. So there is a "little bit" of expression in heterozygotes. So could diffused show less-than-100%-obliteration of belly checkers? Or a known heterozygote for diffused show reduced belly checkers? I would suspect it occurs occasionally.

One more reason why I want to see someone do the corn snake genome. There are no snakes that have been sequenced, only 1 species of anole.

The zipper belly is something I see pretty regularly in animals that are 100% Het Blood. Of course just to throw a wrench in the mix I get the same pattern on animals with no blood in the genetic soup. I used to think the split belly was a sure sign of an animal being Het Blood because whenever it showed up in my collection that was the case. I was corrected by bigger breeder that has seen more animals in a day than I ever will see in my life time. It's easy to make assumptions based on small sample size. Which, of course, is what we tend to do given that we desperately want a neat and ordered world. Rules make life sooo much easier. It's a shame none of my animals can read.
Thanks Jeff, for sharing the anomalies and making me once again realize how much there is to learn. And I was just starting to feel secure....

Terri

I can say from experience that tackling the molecular genetics of corn snake color, will be an exciting but difficult task. I am currently finishing my PhD in molecular genetics and part of my project looked at the genetics of strangely colored pigs in my population (pigs breaking the rule of pigmentation )...i can sum up my project in 4 words..."coat color is complex". And mammals only have one type of pigment producing cell, so I can only imagine the genetic complexity of snake coloration!

I also cannot wait until they sequence a snake genome to see what kind of information will come from it

P.S. - Something else to think about when looking at "rule breaking" is the interaction between alleles at different genes, especially those unknown/unproven hets.