Rules are meant to be broken.....pattern "rules" of cornsnakes

Jeff, have you done much reading about the masque gene? Split belly checkers and the bald head, especially with the gray band between the eyes being wide, are two of the characteristics. It is much more noticeable in males. It may or may not be present in bloodreds- depends on the snake! It has occurred in combination with many genes, and by itself in normals.

Originally Posted by Iflln2fntsy

I can say from experience that tackling the molecular genetics of corn snake color, will be an exciting but difficult task. I am currently finishing my PhD in molecular genetics and part of my project looked at the genetics of strangely colored pigs in my population (pigs breaking the rule of pigmentation )...i can sum up my project in 4 words..."coat color is complex". And mammals only have one type of pigment producing cell, so I can only imagine the genetic complexity of snake coloration!

OK, so what modifiers to eumelanin occur in pigs? I know the basics of mouse & cat color genetics at the expression level, and a tiny bit about horses....

That last one sure looked like a cinder or an emoryi cross or both.. *LOL*

This guy has no blood influence, Ashey or Emoryi in him at all..




I am to the point of where I could care less about what anyone else sells there stuff as, I just don't care.. I know think I have a pretty good idea of my own personal choices and what I am more than willing to let lay on my conciousness.. *shrugs*

Regards... Tim of T and J

Tim, that's a nice looking snake, good eater too!

Originally Posted by wstphal

OK, so what modifiers to eumelanin occur in pigs? I know the basics of mouse & cat color genetics at the expression level, and a tiny bit about horses....

Melanogenesis is pretty much the same across most mammalian species. I am not sure what you mean by modifiers to eumelanin, but there are several major genes that come into play with pigmentation. The first is KIT, this determines if you have cells that are able to produce color, dominant mutations cause an absence of color due to a lack of melanocytes in the skin. The next big player is MC1R, mutations in this gene will result in either red(recessive) or black(dominant) being produced by the melanocyte (wild type color for many mammals is brown which is a result of equal amounts of red and black pigmentation). There is also the Agouti gene which turns pigmentation on and off, you see the result expression of this gene in the hair color of mice with the "striped" hair shafts. Another gene, EDNRB is responsible for spotting (at least in mice, nothing has been found in pigs yet). Mutations in tyrosinase causes an albino phenotype....and this list goes on. I usually go to the Mouse Genome Informatics website to look at expression stuff since coat color in pigs is still an ongoing project (mutations associated with a certain phenotype have only been found in KIT and MC1R so far in pigs). My project is currently looking at the occurrence of solid white F2 piglets from a cross between a black breed of pigs and a red breed of pigs. Right now I know it is recessive and that there are at least 4 genes at play (could be more ).

Sorry for the long post, not sure i answered your question...i get excited about genetics and start to ramble sometimes...

Well, there are the modifiers of distribution of melanin along the hair shaft (agouti, dilutes in mammals), the modifiers of red/brown balance (brown/black/red selfs), the modifiers that prevent melanin synthesis, ie, white spotting or the temperature sensitive mutant (it's called Himalayan in mice and Siamese in cats). So you are working with solid white piglets in the F2 of a cross between a black & a red line of pigs. Let's see -- if this were simple, you'd get 1/4 one color & 3/4 the other and instead you got WHITE! Are they leucistic whites or albino whites?

Sorry, I know NOTHING about pig color except that they do come in various breeds & colors, but I love genetics! Can't you tell? And yeah, you answered my question, only you opened up MORE questions! Isn't that the way of things?

wow that's a lot of genetic material to sink in. But definately interesting Anyway, just to add some oil to the fire...I have a Ultramel Bloodred female with the clear white belly, diffusion and coloration from the bloodred gene. BUT she also has about 5 or 6 checkers on het belly right after her neck.....

Oh I'm LOVING this... I love genetics too... Makes my hubby cross-eyed LOL

Originally Posted by wstphal

And yeah, you answered my question, only you opened up MORE questions! Isn't that the way of things?

Opening more questions is always what happens, but that is what makes science interesting . Knowing stuff about the coat color in other animals is like knowning about coat color in pigs. Most of the genes controlling coat color in all mammals are the same it just depends if mutations in those genes have been seen/found in every species. I would bet that these same genes are partially controlling coloration in snakes also, but there would be more genes at work since snakes have xanthophores, erythrophores, and iridiophores in addition to melanocytes.

To answer the question about my white pigs, they have normal colored eyes so they are not albino, but their lack of color is not due to any of the genes known to cause leucism. But mutations in the gene I am investigating has been known to cause the exoskeleton of fruit flies to turn white (I know pigs are evolutionarily a ways off from flies, but this gene hasn't really been researched very much). Hopefully I will have the answer about my gene soon and I can add to the list of genes known to change skin/hair/other color...thus making everything just a little more complicated

Originally Posted by Iflln2fntsy

Opening more questions is always what happens, but that is what makes science interesting . Knowing stuff about the coat color in other animals is like knowning about coat color in pigs.

Yes, that's why I love it, and why I thought I was going to do research although I wound up in health care. But questions are the driving force. Why? Why? Why? Those were my 3 favorite words as a child, and not "Why can't I...?" but "Why is the...?"

Originally Posted by Iffln2fntsy

To answer the question about my white pigs, they have normal colored eyes so they are not albino, but their lack of color is not due to any of the genes known to cause leucism. But mutations in the gene I am investigating has been known to cause the exoskeleton of fruit flies to turn white (I know pigs are evolutionarily a ways off from flies, but this gene hasn't really been researched very much). Hopefully I will have the answer about my gene soon and I can add to the list of genes known to change skin/hair/other color...thus making everything just a little more complicated

Oh, that is so cool. That would be a great connection if the gene is the same or a close homologue. I love it when we can connect Drosophila genetics to mammal genetics. Drosophila are kinda nasty but such a cool model!

Do you do molecular biology? Or what? More details please!

Oh, and does your user name indicate you are a science fiction/fantasy fan?