New Rack, New Snake--Research help?

Ok, I want to by a rack for my current snakes, and with enough room for at least one new type of snake. I'm trying to decide what type of rack to get--the reptile show is next weekend and I'm going to see what they have there, and if that doesn't turn up a good rack at a good price I'm thinking of going with an animal plastics economy rack.

So, I'm trying to do some research on snakes I might get to fill in the rack. I know I should get the rack first, but I can research snake breeds for months or even longer! I'm interested in snakes that can be handled, don't require live food, need very different living conditions than corns, and won't get that much bigger then a corn snake. (or are that much more expensive then a corn)

I've narrowed down the species/types I'm considering:
rat snake/or creamsicile
King snake
milk snake (particularly black milk)
hognose

My question is not which I should get, though suggestions would be nice, but where can I go to research more on these species of snakes and their care and husbandry? I know this is a cornsnake forum, are there good forums dedicated to these other snakes?

Personally, I would go with the hognose(s). They aren't as common (in my opinion) as the other snakes on your list and have some interesting color morphs, including some that haven't been fully explored and/or barely discovered. Here's a link to a recent thread with more detail on morphs of Western Hognoses. http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74556

Also, there are other color variants/species that come from around the world. Here's a link that shows most of them and has care sheets and answers to FAQs. http://www.hognose.com/pages/care/index.htm

They have a lot of character and some interesting expressions. Plus, their self defense behavior is awesome and comical; when hissing and striking with a closed mouth doesn't scare a predator away, they flip on their back, stick their tongue out, and "play dead." If you try to flip them right side up, they roll back to being upside down. However, they adjust well to being handled(there's one at a local pet store that is very "lovable" and very calm, no matter who picks him up) and I've seen pics of hoggies literally being "hand fed" i.e. snake eating food while being cradled in someone's palm. I've read that you may want to vary their diet a bit rather than sticking to only mice as this can be detrimental to their health (they develop a fatty liver if I remember right) but I think this only applies to species other than Western Hognose. Also, they are diurnal so they are active while you are (unless you're a night owl or vampire...lol) Anyways, that's my two cents and more than slightly influenced by the fact that I really want one and am seriously considering the aforementioned one in the pet shop. :-)

Good luck with whatever you decide on!

Originally Posted by sarcare

Ok, I want to by a rack for my current snakes, and with enough room for at least one new type of snake. I'm trying to decide what type of rack to get--the reptile show is next weekend and I'm going to see what they have there, and if that doesn't turn up a good rack at a good price I'm thinking of going with an animal plastics economy rack.

I've narrowed down the species/types I'm considering:
rat snake/or creamsicile
King snake
milk snake (particularly black milk)
hognose

First off lets consider the following.
I am not sure how long you have been working with snakes and your age (in my eyes it does have a lot to do with it)
Question? Do you want a hand holdy snake? Not all snake due well for their first few years and like to be held.

Hognose: great little snakes. I own one myself, they can get huffy and like to bluff. But be warned they like to go off feed. And if you get one at a show, make sure they are eaters. Best thing about them, kept in smaller containers such as critter keepers or a 10 gallon tank.

King Snake: very good eaters, but which species are you looking for?
California King
Mexican Black King
Desert King
Florida King
Mountain King
Gray Banded King.
this is just to name a few of the common species out there for sale. From my own experience, kings can be a bit touchy and aggressive feeders. I have a Florida king that jumps out of the cage to be fed. I had him on a hook and he came after me to feed. It was entertaining but he would have tagged me if i was slower.
Now my MBKs are very calm, do not like to be held that first year but are much better now. I think they are calmer than the other species but I have heard of some real aggressive ones.

Milk snakes: wonderful snakes, but spazzes. I love my Milks and I work with them all the time. Heck, I got 3 coming into me real soon. But I gotta tell you, an 08 I got recently is a PITA!!! I wants to fly out of my hands and will not focus on the food due to the flight response. I have to place him in a container and close it up for him to eat. It takes him about 20 minutes to notice the food but he eats. Again, these guys are not good hand holdy as wee ones.
Now mind you, I love the Black Milks and hoping to get a trio next year. By far one my favorite species of snakes. But be warned as an adult these guys are big and require a larger setup than the average colubrid. A 20 gallon tank will not hold these guys. something along the lines of a 40 gallon breeder for 1 adult.

Now the best for last.. Rat snake.
Well is like saying I want a dog and then trying to find the type of dog you want. There are so many, with new world and old world.
here are the species I work with:
new world
Texas Rat
Black Rat
Fox Snake
Baird Rat
Rootbeer (cross)
Old world
Trinket snake

I have also worked with Blue Beauties as well. My favorite is fast becoming the Fox snake. The young are very calm and relaxed compared to what Corn snakes are like. But then again these guys are hatched from my collection but mom being a w/c and then given to me has been a regular feeder of f/t mice from day one. Babies took to frozen with no coaching.
This is by far the most diverse group there is and personalities vary from one snake to the next.

I think though these guys are what you want out of your selection.
Here are some species I recommend.
Fox Snake
Kisatchie
Black Rat
Texas Rat (go for a luecistic)

Now as racks go, I love the animal plastics rack, you can not go wrong with them. Best rack for your buck in my eyes. Even though I am going to build a rack this weekend. I still will order more from these guys. It just depends how much work it is. lol I do not have the tools to build these like most people and its hard to get someone who does to help build one. The animal plastic one took 30 minutes to put it up and you can request different sizes. I was going to get the 10 shelf economy unit from them. Its not on display, their main one is a 6 shelf. Very nice and I keep ball pythons in it.

Tricksterpup, thanks for your reply! I must have missed it! I've been reading some of these same things about these snakes. I'm still such a newbie about snakes, so I'm trying to do the research, but I don't want to get a snake that will need a real experienced handler. (cause I think that might be bad for both me and the snake)

I do admit that I want a snake that I can hold--I am 27 and work full time, I don't have tons of time to handle my snakes. But I am somewhat patient. Right now I have two hatchling snakes that are not very hand tame, it has been a couple months and they are still not comfortable being held for more then five mins. I have handled a few milk snakes, king snakes, and a rat snake. And I can see what you've said about not loving being held.

Right now I'm thinking one of the rat snakes you suggest, an evul hybrid (jungle or creamsicle), or MBK. I'm still waiting until after I get my rack--I am really thinking of the animal plastics one--one like the one Nanci has.

One thing bothered me about your original post...

...I'm interested in snakes that can be handled, don't require live food, need very different living conditions than corns, and won't get that much bigger then a corn snake. (or are that much more expensive then a corn) ...

Keeping specie sin a rack, they will NEED to be kept under the same living conditions, at least as far as heating, size, and space are concerned. 4 animals in a rack...one heat source and thermostat, so be ready for that.

ALL of the species you mentioned can be kept in very similar conditions to corns, meaning any of them(for the most part) would make a great rack-mate.

With that said...listen to tricksterpup...he knows what he's talking about.

I'm a HUGE fan of kingsnakes. I love them more than corns, to be honest. But they have their issues. Some can be aggressive, some can be bitey, and they almost always react to food in an aggressive manner. You need to deal with that. I have a few Florida kings that will attack anything that moves if they are hungry. But if they are well-fed, they are sweethearts to handle. I also have a couple greybands, an MBK, and a Mexican mt. king. All of them are puppy dogs. I have 3 Prairie kings. One is a sweetheart, one is touchy and moody, and one absolutely hates me. I have a Cal king that is wild caught and he was a sweetheart straight off the road.

You really need to look at pictures, decide what strikes your fancy aesthetically, and than research the care more closely.

My Kingsnake Collection(or at least most of it...)

To give you some ideas of looks of different kings, I have provided a link to a photo gallery of most of my kings. I'm missing a few that I don't have good pictures of, but you get the idea...

As far as racks themselves go...I have three 4-tier/32quart adult racks from ReptileBasics.com that I absolutely love. I also have a 12-bin/shoebox juvenile rack from them that is just as awesome. The price is right, the size is right, and the all the prices include heat, tubs, and shipping. $235 shipped for a 4-tier rack big enough for adult corns and kings, and all you need to do is plug it in to a thermostat and put some holes in the included bins. I LOVE RBI racks...

Thanks for the reply! I am sorry about the confusion over the original post--I meant to say "I'm interested in snakes that can be handled, don't require live food OR need very different living conditions than corns, and won't get that much bigger then a corn snake. (or are that much more expensive then a corn) ..." Which is to say, I want a snake that can live under the same circumstances as corns.

I'm going to go look at your kings--I've been reading up on the MBK, but want to make sure one would fit in the same size enclosure as a full grown corn. Any thoughts?