Joe Pierce -- BAD GUY

Ironic (if Joe doesn't clear this up effectively) that he was the fellow speaking most vociferously about unscrupulous breeders mucking everything up in the "Borrowing Morphs" thread. It seemed to me like the message was that, since these other Bad Guys sell hybrids as pure while producing gene soup and make more money that way, it would be silly for the Honest Guys not to follow suit.

But I too hope that somehow this all works out as a misunderstanding/miscommunication. It's just sad, otherwise. Sorry for all of your troubles, Kat.

-Sean

Originally Posted by Teratoma

But I too hope that somehow this all works out as a misunderstanding/miscommunication. It's just sad, otherwise. Sorry for all of your troubles, Kat.

I've known, watched, and read Kat's communications around here for several years, and I'm 99.99% positive that she would NOT have resorted to posting here unless she had covered all other avenues first. I don't think it's a misunderstanding or miscommunication.

With that said . . . I've also watched and read Joe's communications around here for several years, and I hope (and trust?) that he will rectify the situation with Kat using the same effort and zeal he puts into his cornsnake discussions around here!

D80

I find it interesting that Joe was online early this morning and posted a few times but didn't respond to this thread. Makes me think he has no defense for his actions or he just doesn't care.

Good luck Kat.

Yeah... I've also heard a few hints and rumors from people that Joe might not be as above board as most people like to think he is. Somebody also gave me this link:

http://www.renegadereptiles.com/hallofshame.htm

-Kat

Kat-

All i can say is WOW i never expected this from Joe. I really wish the best of luck for you and hope everything clears up. Take care

That's why i don't do such deals, except the person in question is a very, very good friend..
You never know what will happen to make it go wrong..
I did sort of deal this year with someone i know rather well and it turned out bad due to the lack of communication, so never again.

Arjan

Kat, I'm sorry to hear about this situation. The only comfort I can offer is that while you certainly are not getting everything due to you, you do have your breeder male back and in a healthy state (at least from what I read from your post).

There are certainly many other breeder loan situations you read about where the gipped person doesn't even get their own animal back. =P

Originally Posted by Kat

Yeah... I've also heard a few hints and rumors from people that Joe might not be as above board as most people like to think he is. Somebody also gave me this link:

http://www.renegadereptiles.com/hallofshame.htm

-Kat

I have to admit, I actually have read this link before... but I don't know if it is true, it is a few years back that this has happened, and well, you could be very UNlucky and have NO albino hognoses in 20 babies...

I know of examples in tiger retics, where a tiger(co dominant heterozyguous animal) was placed to a normal female, about 30+ eggs hatched and NONE of them was a tiger retic... you could just have some bad luck in genetics... sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...

@ Joe, I know you will be reading this... if this is true... why are you risking your GOOD name in the corn-business, for just a few cornsnakes... when you picked out our order, you weren't even difficult in "adding" some extra genes... IMO your work was great... but I didn't expect this...


Robin Heinen

a number of years back I had a gorgeous ghost female a certain breeder said I should let him breed her for me as I didn't have an adult male ghost at that time. I never saw her again. He said she laid the eggs and never recovered. I believe him. But you know, I question with the hundreds upon hundreds of animals this guy had/ still has, did she have a chance had she been here at home under better care and supervision? I sure think so. Cause her daughter gets all used up every year too and you have to nurse her along that first month then she bounces back just fine. From conditions I've seen there at times...I know the animals are not getting the care my own do! Just my personal experience there.

As for breeding loans. On one hand I hate to do them, but on the other hand it's allowed me access to things I didn't have. But still a sticky situation all around when dealing with numbers of babies and every baby an individual. The breeding loan I did this past year involved a friend's male pastel anery. I got first pick, and she simply took a pair from each clutch and was happy with that. The rest I sold. I did all the work, hibernating, breeding, tending to the adults, incubating the eggs, starting the hatchlings and cleaning and feeding for two months till we did the selections. But it was set in stone how we were going to do this loan. I'm just surprised Joe went with splitting the clutches in half. Something I wouldn't do! But that's me.

I don't feel Joe is some "bad guy" by any means! This is something that simply got going between two people. And I don't know that it was the right thing to do to throw it out in the open. So I was real hesitant to say a word at first. But I felt I needed to point out that not everyone is so perfect they've never done anything wrong. So let's not be labeling someone so black or white. If we were all honest, we'd all admit we are shades of gray!

And Kat, I also am sorry for you as I know your upset about this and apparently there was an agreement made.

I hope your both able to work this out without low shots and going away eternally angry. I hate seeing corn folks getting in fights and divisions being made! Because in the long run it only hurts the cornsnake community.

Well, it looks like this just might turn into a communications issue. I finally got a brief response from Joe by posting a link to this thread in one of the threads in his forum... It sounds like I -should- get a full reply from him in the not too distant future... Hopefully it'll all work out okay in the end. I'll keep you guys posted.

-Kat