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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Genetics Tutorial
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:23 AM   #21
gwb8568
bump.....Bump.........BUMP.
for me again and anyone else who is new or has never seen it before. thanks again Susan.
 
Old 03-05-2007, 10:55 PM   #22
Jayque
This is a killer guide ... most impressive work. This really should be stickied up in the genetics area - as it seems to anwer 90% of those questions I have read in that alcove of the forum.

Anyway, glad I stumbled into this post - thanks for the work put into this guide.
 
Old 03-09-2007, 12:01 AM   #23
Joejr14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayque
This is a killer guide ... most impressive work. This really should be stickied up in the genetics area - as it seems to anwer 90% of those questions I have read in that alcove of the forum.

Anyway, glad I stumbled into this post - thanks for the work put into this guide.

The FAQ didn't answer any of those questions you had?
 
Old 03-09-2007, 01:00 PM   #24
Jayque
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joejr14
The FAQ didn't answer any of those questions you had?
Oh, don't get me wrong - the FAQ is great too. I wasn't saying "my questions" ... I was just making an observation that between the FAQ and this step by step guide with building block teaching (starting simple and working towards complex) that many of the more common questions are addressed - from "how do I" to "what do I get" ...etc. I feel the FAQ is great to understanding what the terms are and what the basics mean - while this guide delves into the how it works aspect of undertsanding how genes match up ... Hope this clears things up in my intent - as opposed to muddying the waters further.
 
Old 03-09-2007, 07:49 PM   #25
Susan
Jayque - Don't pay too much attention to Joe! He has done an absolutely terrific job with all his FAQ threads, but being the GBB, he has a special job to do, making sure others don't let any compliments go to their heads. Thank you very much for finding my efforts helpful.
 
Old 05-08-2009, 11:53 AM   #26
shaberry
Thanks so much Susan, for taking the time and effort to make this tutorial! I really appreciate you sending this my way. It took me about 2 hrs to get it, but at least I believe I understand it now. I really hope I do. -.-;;; The only thing I didn't understand was the last topic. When you started talking about the motley, stipe, ultra, and amel, I was completely lost. But, I'm sure I'll somehow get it over time. At least for now, I think I feel secure with working on the other genes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayque View Post
This is a killer guide ... most impressive work. This really should be stickied up in the genetics area - as it seems to anwer 90% of those questions I have read in that alcove of the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayque View Post
Oh, don't get me wrong - the FAQ is great too. I wasn't saying "my questions" ... I was just making an observation that between the FAQ and this step by step guide with building block teaching (starting simple and working towards complex) that many of the more common questions are addressed - from "how do I" to "what do I get" ...etc. I feel the FAQ is great to understanding what the terms are and what the basics mean - while this guide delves into the how it works aspect of undertsanding how genes match up ... Hope this clears things up in my intent - as opposed to muddying the waters further.
I totally agree with Jayque. I wish that this was stickied in the genetics area. The current FAQ helps with understanding terminology, however it doesn't explain anything about how to actually compose the calcuations/predictions. And, I don't believe that something like this was posted in the FAQ in the breeding section either. *goes to check* Yup, not in there either. Just Murphy's laws on breeding. I really feel that this tutorial would undoubtedly help newcomers to the forum and field (like me) who are looking to understand combining and creating morphs, but can't (for the life of them) properly use the search function.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 06:19 AM   #27
Susan
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaberry View Post
Thanks so much Susan, for taking the time and effort to make this tutorial! I really appreciate you sending this my way. It took me about 2 hrs to get it, but at least I believe I understand it now. I really hope I do. -.-;;; The only thing I didn't understand was the last topic. When you started talking about the motley, stipe, ultra, and amel, I was completely lost. But, I'm sure I'll somehow get it over time. At least for now, I think I feel secure with working on the other genes.
The relationship between motley and stripe. as well as ultra and amel was left out in this tutorial because it can be confusing to someone just trying to grasp simple Mendelian genetics. I may eventually get around to going into those here, as well as going into tessera (once it's genetic "actions" have been full determined). You can, however, search for some threads on those genes in the Genetics forum that will probably answer your questions on them just as well, if not better than I could here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaberry View Post
I totally agree with Jayque. I wish that this was stickied in the genetics area. The current FAQ helps with understanding terminology, however it doesn't explain anything about how to actually compose the calcuations/predictions. And, I don't believe that something like this was posted in the FAQ in the breeding section either. *goes to check* Yup, not in there either. Just Murphy's laws on breeding. I really feel that this tutorial would undoubtedly help newcomers to the forum and field (like me) who are looking to understand combining and creating morphs, but can't (for the life of them) properly use the search function.
I suppose I could at least post a link to this thread in those other sections. I haven't copied this and stickied it there to avoid stepping on any toes for all the work that was done in those areas already.

Edited one post to include a little bit on motley/stripe and amel/ultra.
 
Old 05-10-2009, 03:52 AM   #28
shaberry
I understand where you're coming from, but at the same time I don't see why people would be upset. Yes, they have put in a lot of work and effort into the faqs that have been posted in the (mentioned) sections. (And it's VERY MUCH appreciated.) But, it's not like you're deleting their post and replacing it with yours. It's merely just an addition. I'd like to think of it as a "new edition" of a book. It's not like the information already provided wasn't substantial. It's just that another topic that wasn't covered has been noticeable enough to include with the previous material.

I mean, isn't providing hobbists of corn snakes with information what this forum is about? And as for FAQs, aren't they used to address Frequently Asked Questions? I may be going out on a limb here, but I'd like to think that the material that is covered in this thread is asked pretty often, to the point of frequent.

Meh, but I do understand what you're saying Susan. This is the internet, and some people get a little overzealous with their positions in forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan View Post
I suppose I could at least post a link to this thread in those other sections. I haven't copied this and stickied it there to avoid stepping on any toes for all the work that was done in those areas already.
Well, if you posted a link to this thread, it would be better than nothing. =) Sorry, for requesting so much and yammering about my own personal thoughts. I just thought I would speak up for those newbies to the hobby and the site, who aren't quite familiar with forum territory. (I didn't realize it, but forums are gigantic. There's always somewhere new to go. It's kinda intimidating.)

And, I just realized that this thread was in your Member's Forum. Wow, I NEVER would have thought to look here for a tutorial on genetics. I'm usually just browsing the general corn snake forum. Once again, THANKS SO MUCH Susan for directing me here. Your tutorial was exactly the "corn snake genetics predictions for dummies" that I was looking for. It was very educational! I can even kinda understand the punnet square results in MP's genetics program! =) ( Now I just need to learn how to use the darn thing. -.-;;; )
 
Old 06-18-2009, 12:02 PM   #29
sweet~nichole~marie
I have a question about interactions between the different genes . . .

In simple mendelian genetics you expect the dominant to overshadow the recessive traits, but when you start mixing multiple genes together that flies out the window.

an amel het anery snake (aaBb) shows the red but not the black, but looking at the genotype you would expect the gene that has a dominant allele in it to show through.

It is as if the recessive trait is "stronger" than the homozygous or heterozygous trait of another.

So, my question is (finally ) when trying to determine what your snake will look like, if you have any recessives in the mix, is that what will show?

Ex. aa Hh DD Ww BB Rr since the aa is the only trait that has 2 recessive alleles, it will be the one that shows, not matter how many other dominant alleles there are for other genes?

Thanks (in advance) for the clarification . . .I understand mendelian genetics, co-dominance, incomplete dominance, multiple alleles, polygenic traits, etc. but this doesn't seem to follow any of those patterns . . . Is there a name for the way the genetics of cornsnakes behave?
 
Old 06-18-2009, 07:28 PM   #30
Susan
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet~nichole~marie View Post
I have a question about interactions between the different genes . . .

In simple mendelian genetics you expect the dominant to overshadow the recessive traits, but when you start mixing multiple genes together that flies out the window.

an amel het anery snake (aaBb) shows the red but not the black, but looking at the genotype you would expect the gene that has a dominant allele in it to show through.

It is as if the recessive trait is "stronger" than the homozygous or heterozygous trait of another.

So, my question is (finally ) when trying to determine what your snake will look like, if you have any recessives in the mix, is that what will show?

Ex. aa Hh DD Ww BB Rr since the aa is the only trait that has 2 recessive alleles, it will be the one that shows, not matter how many other dominant alleles there are for other genes?

Thanks (in advance) for the clarification . . .I understand mendelian genetics, co-dominance, incomplete dominance, multiple alleles, polygenic traits, etc. but this doesn't seem to follow any of those patterns . . . Is there a name for the way the genetics of cornsnakes behave?
Corn snakes perfectly follow Mendelian genetics. The dominant genes are what we call the "wild-type" phenotype...the normal/classic corn snake. Each of the recessive genes affects the phenotype "away from" the dominant wild-type phenotype. So far, all but one currently recognized corn snake gene are recessive to wild-type. Only the tessera gene seems to be dominant to wild-type when in het form. We should know by this year's breeding results if there is a "super" form of tessera when it is in homozygous in an individual.

For example, the amel gene removes the black that is normally seen in the wild-type. The anery gene removes the red that is normally seen in the wild-type. A snake that is homozygous for amel has 2 recessive genes and no dominant wild-type gene to produce the black. If that snake is also het anery, then it has one recessive gene to remove the red, but one dominant wild-type gene to produce the red, so that amel het anery corn snake will still have the red but no black.

Now that same amel het anery corn snake still have both dominant wild-type genes at the lavender, caramel, motley, hypo, etc loci, so you do not see any of those recessive traits in the phenotype, just the amel as that is the only gene that has been changed from the wild-type normal-looking corn snake.

If your amel snake is now also homozygous for anery instead of just being het, the dominant wild-type genes to produce black and red have been replaced vy the recessive mutant genes so the snake will not have black or red and will be a snow corn snake. Add yet another pair of recessive genes to replace the dominant wild-type ones, for say, the pattern, and suddenly you have a snow motley corn snake!

Now some recessive genes can mask the effect of other recessive genes. For example, if a snake is homozygous for both caramel and anery, the phenotype will be anery as the effect of the caramel gene cannot be seen (for the most part; in some individuals with this particular genetic make-up, the yellow may be increased, but that really hasn't been proven 100%). The effects of hypo in an amel snake is also masked, but some of the other melanin-decreasing genes, like lava, some people say you can see a difference.

If you are still confused, I'll try again.
 

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