They're never energetic and crazy, except when..

Hi! I posted once a while back, but I'm just stopping by for an important question.

I have two baby corns (both around 6 months old, but adopted at different times), and a black rat snake in a seperate viv named Bill Murray. One an absolutely GORGEOUS (hypo-albino-motley- stripe??-tri color.. err, he's a bunch of things.. really unsure..) babe named Calcifer, and the other an okatee (however you spell it?) named Wikipedia. I don't know either of their genders for certain, but Calcifer's seller (a small, family owned pet shop) mentioned - 'I really think he's a boy, because any breeder would never give up a girl who looked like this.' So.. don't know about that, but I've always gone with the hunch.

Anyways, they get along swell (really, REALLY well. I mean like, constant cuddling and wanting to be around eachother, for a while I had to feed them on the same day and there was no tension, they've both shed around eachother, etc. I think they're in love. Truly!) and both have distinct personalities although both are very calm/laid back natures (Wiki more than Cal.)

I'll get to the question: I burn incense (among other things.. but incense seems to be the trigger) and I had all three of em' for a while before I started to burn some, but.. I mean.. wow. They both go CRAZY. Absolutely CRAZY. I mean, Cal is running all the over the place as I write, I just opened the window and lit an orange blossom stick.. like, on the walls, constantly in motion.. nuts, won't sit still for even a second, just running everywhere.) So.. that's.. weird. Even if it's morning when they're super suuper mellow. It's especially odd at the moment because it's only I lit the stick at 3:30pm or so and Cal immediately ran out his hide which he's been in for for quite a while, since his color is nearly gone (no eyes yet) I believe he's going into shed. But now they haven't stopped creating chaos. So does this mean they LIKe the smell, and want to get out because they enjoy it? Is it like some kind of enjoyment scent? Or does it really bug them and they're trying to move around to like, make it stop? I just don't know how to tell. It's really strange, this happen with anyone else?

My black rat is over a year and pretty big, he's a mover in general all day long. He's curious as ever, so it's harder to notice a change when I burn sticks (or sage even, but that was like one time.) But he does move in strange patterns on the wall of his viv moving torwards the insense stand.

So yeah this was probably alot longer and all then it needed to be, but anyone know how to tell if they're experiencing a good or bad scent? Just don't want to make sure I'm super annoying them.

You need to separate them... being on top of each other is not cuddling... they are trying to get the best spot in the tank and it can end up with them killing one another...
the sentence is the link:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=118182
nd strong smells can hurt snakes badly, birds too for that matter...

Originally Posted by Ravenessa

You need to separate them... being on top of each other is not cuddling... they are trying to get the best spot in the tank and it can end up with them killing one another...
the sentence is the link:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=118182
nd strong smells can hurt snakes badly, birds too for that matter...

Alright thanks for the smells info, I opened every window and moved stuff around, it's a little smoky but nothing smells too bad now. I sell clothes from my house, and I'll often light candles and fruity smells to make them smell good for buyers, so maybe I'll figure out where to move the clothes and stuff.

As for the link.. I've ready literally every article on cage sharing including that one and I unserstand but.. the two of them were both housed at a pet shop for the first months of their lives with TONS and tons of other corns in the same viv. Now that's fairly normal with hatchlings and stuff, but no - there were all different aged snakes in the tank. I remember seeing a gigantic (at least a yearling) butter and a few literally just born babies of all different kinds.

I get that snakes in general are solitary animals. But.. they've been with other snakes since birth. Both have never had any trouble eating or shedding at all, and they've never been agressive with me or eachother. Not once. I know you think they're competing for the best spot, but I should of specified that they only cuddle inside this one hut. There's 3 different kinds of hides, but only one is at a really good spot temperature wise, and it's easily escapable, tall, great shape for curling up in, etc. It makes sense that they both graviate towards it, so they tend to sleep with eachother during most of the morning/day. And I think that's fine. It's only during their bedtime when they get together. The MOMENT absolutely ANYTHING unusual occurs, is when I'll seperate them immediately. And I mean ANYTHING. If one of them even skips a meal, I'll seperate.

First of all, you are smoking them out. Why in the world would you create something that wildlife is automatically tuned to as a danger sign around your pets intentionally?

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

I should of specified that they only cuddle inside this one hut. There's 3 different kinds of hides, but only one is at a really good spot temperature wise.

This is WHY they "cuddle", you say it yourself, "only one is at a really good spot temperature wise".

I can't stress HOW important it is to separate them, they can and will eat each other if they get the need/chance. Do you think the pet shop had "tons" of them in the same viv because the snakes like each other or because the pet shop can make more money by housing them together? That is a pet shop that should be shut down, they definitely do NOT have the animals' best interests in mind. That is just sickening.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The MOMENT absolutely ANYTHING unusual occurs, is when I'll seperate them immediately. And I mean ANYTHING. If one of them even skips a meal, I'll seperate.

And that will be exactly ONE moment too late. Once they start to feed on something it is game over for both, you can't pull one out of the other's mouth. Once they start to coil another, you won't get them apart without damage.

Please please PLEASE see and hear the danger signs we are giving you, this is not speculation, it is proven facts. Also please do a LOT of reading up on corn snake care, there are many good books and fact sheets on this forum, here is a sheet I made for another member, please take everything into consideration and separate them. PLEASE.

And I don't think I want to know why one has "no eyes yet".

I don't have enough money for another tank. The plan has always been to get them their own spaces when I can afford it. Please don't respond with 'then don't adopt another corn', as the family owned shop IS actually going out of buisness, and if their supply of live pets didn't get adopted, the owners had no idea what they'd do with the animals. I had the materials and it was easy for me to take one of the corns of their hands. I love him unconditionally, and I'm trying to do my best.

Thanks for all your 'concern', but I've read plenty of corn snake care sheets.. reptile keeping has been in my family for years. I'll move them when I can.

Honestly, I was expecting a much gentler reply. These forums aren't what I thought them to be. Sorry if every newcomer isn't as much as an 'expert' as you want them to be, but it's no reason to seem unwelcoming.

I think this forum is generally very welcoming to newcomers, but cohabbing is always a very heated topic. And because you admitted to having read that it's not a good idea but chose to do it anyway, I think you can see how people might take that badly.

I think cannibalism is very rare among cohabbed corn snakes, but I do think it sounds like your snakes are stressed. And my main concern, because you don't know the genders, is that they will breed too young if they end up being a male and female. It is very dangerous for them to breed too young.

My advice would be to pick up a plastic storage tub to cheaply make a second enclosure for now. And then you could take your time finding a nice enclosure once you can afford it.

In the end, your decision is obviously your own, but I personally would choose to follow the advice and experience of people who have been keeping corn snakes for much longer than I have.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. I hope you choose to stay.

Sorry but you don't have to be an expert to know not to house them together. That's snake 101. I'm sure you can find a cheap tank somewhere. Check our craigslist.

I know my post was harsh and I don't mean to insult you, but the reality of it is that you are not ready to own a pet. What happens when (not "if", but "when") something happens to a pet and there is a $500 vet bill that needs to be paid up front? Please, if you can't afford it, wait until you are financially stable to take in a pet. Talk to your vet or the ASPCA, they will be able to direct you to a reptile expert that can help you.

The pet shop by FAR has more money and resources than you do to care for one snake if they close, there are breeders and wholesalers they can sell them to, don't get suckered by that line. You say you sell clothes online, one sale will get you a plastic tub from Walmart and you can try to get some extra sales quickly to get the UTH. Within a week or so you could have your setup together.

I am a very welcoming member here, and really do try to help the newbies with their new corn snakes, but your post came across as very carefree and blasé and you didn't even know about smoke (and whatever you burn besides incense) and if your family has owned reptiles for years, why didn't you ask them?

And we don't expect you to be an expert, Candy already said that, but you also claim to have done enough reading to know better. Your attitude and posts really seem selfish, I am not one to bash another member at all but many of my corns are from people in your position: they can't afford another tank, can't give them the time they need to clean the viv, can't afford to feed them, etc. I have snakes from all sorts of bad situations so it does piss me off when someone admittedly knows better but says "I'll get around to it when I can afford it". That is animal cruelty.

We do hope you will stay, we want you to learn how to care for them correctly, but you have to accept constructive criticism to do that. I agree my post was not as sugar coated as you may have wanted, but I see this WAY too often and it hurts my heart when the information is all there but someone admittedly chooses to ignore it. The only one you are hurting is the innocent animal.

Please, do what you will with the information given, but make an educated decision on what is really best for the snakes, it comes down to their needs, not your wants.

I don't think smignon was harsh AT ALL. You clearly don't care about the well being of your animals. I don't understand why you even posted here if you weren't expecting to hear about the proper care your animals need. In my opinion, smignon did sugar coat it. You seem way too stubborn and unintelligent to be homing these exotic animals. Find a new hobby if you can't afford an $8 tub from Walmart. Oh wait, how about you stop buying incense and use that money to properly care after your snakes.


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"I can't afford it." This happens so much in animal care. It may be the cheap dog/cat food that offer no nutritional value. Sure you can't afford better, but you'll have a sick animal that may require expensive vet visits. My cat probably eats better than I do.

The problem with exotics is two-fold. 1) They typically have a higher initial investment for basic care (for snakes: cages, UTH's, thermostats, substrate, cage decorations, the snake itself) than say a dog or a cat would. 2) there is so much misinformation on how to treat them properly.

It was nice of you to offer to take an additional snake from the pet store. If they're still around, ask for a cage on discount. Sometimes paying in cash could get you a discount, too. They may be willing to work with you. Since you say they housed tons of snakes together (babies up to yearlings) in the same cage, I'm actually thrilled they're going out of business. We have enough irresponsibility with all the Petco's and Petmart's churning out animals in the world. A small shop should know better

Corn snakes are very cheap to maintain, but that initial cost is a big hurdle. If you can, save a little bit at a time so that you can buy a new cage, UTH, thermometer, thermostat. I could offer some good saving advice if you're open to it.

Start with the cage and UTH. Check CraigsList or reptile forums like this one. I would aim for a 40 gallon, since that will be plenty large for the snake for the rest of his life with you. The cheapest you can go for glass is the all glass, rectangular cages you see everywhere (get clips to keep the lid shut) or plastic tubs also work great. Poke in a few breathing holes and you're good to go!

IMO, separating is more of a priority than having the perfect viv temps (the group can chime in if I'm totally wrong there! I might be). Very good thermometers and thermostats can be found on Amazon for fairly cheap. My digital thermometers were $5 each. Thermostats are closer to $30-40.