07-29-2007, 03:45 AM
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#31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeC
how can you know for sure?
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We can't. We can make this 'conclusion' based upon the countless hours of observation that herptologists have made of snakes in their 'natural' environments.
Quote:
do your snakes talk to you?
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Do your snakes talk to you?
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...and If they start not getting along...
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How can you be certain they aren't getting along? Do you have a degree in Snake-psychology?
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07-29-2007, 05:16 AM
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#32
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not getting along for me is one snake getting scared of the other ones touch, or if they refuse meals and/or regurg. bad shedding, etc.
my snakes actually group together, like when we take them out to play on our bed, they crawl to each other and rest their heads on the other, like lovers... except they're both female lol. they share hides (when multiple are avalibe at the same temp) They share a 20 gallon viv, with aspen bedding, and when we take them out they're usually curled up together under the aspen.
I know people say they go to the same spot because it might be the best place in the viv for sunning, etc, but in our viv theirs plenty of hides and same temp under the aspen. So I think they just like each other...
or maybe im just optimistic.
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07-29-2007, 05:19 AM
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#33
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and fizzle:
no my snakes dont talk to me! LOL! I WISH
haha no degree but I like to hope I can semi-understand them and their small brains
fizzle is me hero! i love humor...
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07-29-2007, 06:58 AM
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#34
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LeeC
well all I can say is do what you want.
Even if it means ignoring good sound advise given by people with more experience.
Even though this thread is a couple of years old, someone brought it back up so it seemed like a good time to remind new keepers of the possible drawbacks.
Do you use a temp gun and check every inch of your tank, even under the hides, to determine if the temps are exactly the same?
If they are the same, which I doubt, then you are already doing things wrong, there should be some kind of temperature gradient.
Have you checked the humidity thoughout the entire tank, even under the hides? I also doubt you have the capability to do this..
There could be a slight temperature and/or humidity difference under the particular hide they occupy.
As I stated earlier, snakes have no capacity to like or enjoy. They go to where conditions are optimum.
I see people make comments like "you don't know if they can like or love, how could you?"
well people have been studying the human brain and the brains of lesser animals for years and years. They CAN tell these things by brain size, brain structure and a number of other factors. It is simple science to the properly trained. The same as telling by the structure of an animals eyes wether or not they can see color or to how much of a degree they can discern different colors.
Like I said earlier, do what you want, they are yours, but without expressing the possible drawbacks a lot of us feel it is wrong to just simply recommend co-habitation, especially to new keepers.
Like I also said....and I challenge you to prove otherwise...there are good reasons as to why you SHOULD NOT house snakes together but there are NO good reasons as to why you SHOULD.
think about the beginner and what is best for them and their animals when offering advise. We want to help people start out under the best possible circumstances.
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07-29-2007, 12:46 PM
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#35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagg
The options aren't very well represented. The only "No" option has you admitting that you were ignorant enough to house 2 snakes together at one point. I vote "no", never thought about it, would never do it, why would you want to?
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How bout 'No, not even going to endanger my snakes to try it'
I work in a local pet store, and I wasnt working there long before I realized they were housing their corns together. It broke my heart.....they were also practicing other no no's like feeding them in their units on aspen. It didnt matter though because their was pinkies lying there because no one was eating.
They have other snakes but the wall unit they house them in isnt large enough to co-house. I was there about a week before I got friendly with the "snake girl"....I went out and bought tupperware sets in the 99 cent store and showed them to the girl working in the reptile section. Basically this is a store run by 22 year olds, our boss is never in and he wouldnt notice the snakes thats for sure. I made holes in the lids, and small holes in the sides and took one corn from every unit and put it into the container. And then the container was put back into the housing unit......but at least they couldnt have contact that way. Now the 22 yr old who never had any knowledge on snakes doesnt let them come into contact with each other. And now, when customers come in and ask about corns, they also asked why they are separated by containers. IMO, thats where the problem lies. At the source of selling corns. Most people dont get snakes from breeders, they get them from pet stores. And most people do not come online and research, they ask the teenager in the pet store how to care for the animal. I can only affect what goes on in this particular store for the time I work there, but its something. Our corns are eating again, except now its my job. Everyone else is not so crazy about slicing mice open lol.
Snakes are cannibals, thats a fact. Anyone who knows this and houses them together, in my opinion ..if your going to endanger them like so you probably dont belong owning them altogether.
I would never chance the horrible feeling Id have if I came home and found a snake missing and the other snake with a big bulge in its belly.
Its not worth it........really. 10 gallon tanks are 12$.......
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07-29-2007, 01:27 PM
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#36
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Now I'm not even going to attempt to fully slip into this topic, it's been discussed a lot lately which is a bit of a shock. My snakes are all in their own separate little houses, with separate water dishes and separate hides. Basically? They're all kept in the same room, the same general area, and you can tell which snake has what personality just watching them. I see my snakes with personalities yes. There's that group over here that I call the 'tail rattlers' that if you open the cage, you're asking to get tagged. Then there's the more sociable ones just because they've been handled more and have come to accept that if the lid comes off the cage and I'm not too busy, they're going to end up drug out of their hides and out into the open to either show off, or just let them explore a bit while I do whatever else I'm doing at the time.
So yes, I think each corn has their own personality, to a point. Now they aren't as developed as humans (thankfully, I'd hate to know what they'd say about how 'boring' their houses are or something ), but I don't exactly believe that anything on our planet discovered thus far is as 'developed' as humans.
Snakes breed, they eat, they poop, they drink, and hide, and they sleep. That's the basic life of a snake. Survival is the key, in the wild they're afraid of being consumed by whatever that comes along (which could mean another snake). I've housed young corns together for awhile yes, but once they start getting bigger they get their own houses, just for the fact that its easier to monitor them that way. It's easier to see who shed when, which regurged, who soaked in the water dish...that sort of thing.
...Just my 2 cents.
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07-29-2007, 05:31 PM
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#37
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Jimmy Johnson
I understand about the cons of houseing together, and thank everyone whos giving good advice on this subject, that was just my opintion.
And about the temps, I have a tempature reader with a small round end on a cord that I move around the tank, such as under dif spots of aspen, under the light, and in the air. Theres a cool side @ about 75 and a warm side at about 85.
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08-03-2007, 01:42 PM
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#38
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All the reading I did none of them said not to have two snakes together,I guess I have to buy another tank.
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08-03-2007, 04:36 PM
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#39
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hmmm
I wasn't going to respond because I thought you would think this is just an attack on you. it really isn't.
Just trying to point out the problems to new keepers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeC
I understand about the cons of houseing together, and thank everyone whos giving good advice on this subject, that was just my opintion.
And about the temps, I have a tempature reader with a small round end on a cord that I move around the tank, such as under dif spots of aspen, under the light, and in the air. Theres a cool side @ about 75 and a warm side at about 85.
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If you understand the cons of housing together why would you ever recommend it?
Quote:
my snakes actually group together, like when we take them out to play on our bed, they crawl to each other and rest their heads on the other, like lovers... except they're both female lol. they share hides (when multiple are avalibe at the same temp) They share a 20 gallon viv, with aspen bedding, and when we take them out they're usually curled up together under the aspen. I know people say they go to the same spot because it might be the best place in the viv for sunning, etc, but in our viv theirs plenty of hides and same temp under the aspen.
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Which is it?
is there a temperature gradient as stated in the top quote or are the temps the same as stated in the bottom quote.
Like I said before..just because you think things are great for your snakes and you haven't had problems, yet, it just isn't a good idea to recommend co-habitation, especially to new keepers. And of course it's the new keepers who ask.
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08-05-2007, 01:37 PM
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#40
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i think you may be, in a manner of speaking, short changing snakes, along with other animals. saying that a snake cannot feel a liking toward a person or another animal is very rash...if you think about it all animals that have a self contious mind of their own have a compasity to trust and individual or another animal...and if they can trust, than they are not far from liking...think of your best friend, your wife or a close family memeber. do you trust them? i would hope you do. take this example... Mike gets a one week old hatchling cornsnake...he hold is two to three times a week and each time he holds is for several hours, just letting the snake roam around his room with him watching, or just going all over himself...at this point in time the snake is young and is going to be a tad stressed by the whole situation...after all...its suroundings are several hundred, if not thousand times larger than it, including mike himself. if the snake starts to get scared by something mike picks the snake up and holds it in its hands and calms it down. this may not seem like much but it makes a major differance further down the road. brain size does matter, but keep in mind a snakes brain grows with them...larger brain allows for more ability to think, not so much reason, but to think and learn. years go by with mike and his snake. by now the snake is only relaxed and comfortable when mike is holding it or when it is in its viv. if someone else trys to hold the snake it usualy stresses out and trys to escape and return to mike. this is because over the years, starting from its childhood, the snake has learned everything about mike...his smell, his feel, the vibrations his vocal cords make, the way he looks and how he holds him...the snake has learned to trust mike, it knows that it over all of the time that the snake has been with the snake that mike has not harmed or tried to harm it and has took good care of it and reassured the snake in times where it was not to sure of its saftey. this trust can be looked at many ways. the way i see it. is that its almost like a friendship. alot of your friends will do the same thing for you, as mike does for his snake. and that leads to a trust. this trust is not limited to just owner/pet, it has been well documented thoughout the animal kingdom with odd matched animals...cats and dogs living in the same home who spend most of their time together...there is no reason why they should, its a large house with plenty of room but they still stay together...there is an old couple who have a cat that is friends with a crow...the cat goes out in the back yard and the crow will come over and they will play fight eachother and such, the crow could easily just fly away, and the cat could just kill the crow...but they both have a trust in one another that neither will harm the other. so what is there to say that two snakes cannot become trusting in one another if they have been together for a long time, im not saying that it is wise to house them together, and im am also not saying it is wrong...it is up to your personal choise for that. what i am saying though is dont see these animals as one track, simple minded animals, they are not much unlike ourselfs, just we are cursed with reasoning and higher though process, which have their advantages and downfalls, but thats a whole different topic.
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