are you still feeding your snake mice & rats ???

the reason I asked what is the rats feed the red die in dog food has been proven to be harm full to herps and ypu should use some sm. and med. mice because there bones are more developed and I checked your profile no info I will not let some one in my house with out knowing where you live phone number and after I talk to you on the phone I can get a feel if I want you in my home and even then I am real picky who comes in here. Many years ago to guys came into home the told me that they heard some guys talking about me breeding snakes to the pet store owner they heard that I had a proven breeder surinam boa for 500 $ I had this posted all over diffarent news papers. clubs ect. I went to take the snake out of the cage and before I new it one guy got me in a bear hug and the other had a knife to my throat the next thing I know I'm knocked out in duct tape mouth, hands and feet. no hard feelings. mabe when I get know you better we can hang here and I will show all my animals COOL?

You do what works for you and I will do what works for me If you dont like what I'm doing ( tuff )

Originally Posted by Vinman

all quettions that you asked were all ready told to you dont be lazy read all the posts

Dude, you need to chill out. She was polite and you were a jerk!

I can understand that, of course i need to know your not going to hurt me to. Perhaps closer to my fly in date we can talk or some thing. You did say you sell correct? What have you got in the alley of ball python, corns and kings.

I was not being mean what I said. You dont jump in a disscion and ask a hole lot of ques. that have allready been posted I went through everthing that she asked If she would have read everthing she would have not asked the ques. that she did. Give credit where credit is do If you dont read what is going on then how can you add somthing to the convo . Why do I have to go ove the same thing over and over I dont mind helping out thats why I started this post

nothing 4 sale except the two corns I hav posted

I want to thank everybody for contributing to this thread. I have found it very educational in many aspects. In fact, I may just print it out and share it with my 8th grade students and teach a lesson on using the internet to find information.

One of the biggest problems with the internet and education in my opinion, is that there is way too much mis-information provided with little effort by today's students to verify that information as accurate. I may use this thread to show this in 'real time'.

1. You must consider the source of the information.
Hurley as a source of information over the last 3 years I have been present here has been extremely respectful towards people . . . even when disagreeing or telling them they are wrong.
Vinman as a source of information from most of the posts I've read has been argumentative and 'this is what I do and I'm right' tone.

2. Is the information verifiable from another source?
Hurley provided a book reference to her information on Vitamin C importance and where it can be found.
Vinman has provided . . . 'figure it out yourself' and 'read the posts'.

3. Is the person disseminating information an 'expert' in their field?
I began reading this thread thinking it was an infomercial . . . "I have something great that revolutionizes the herp industry, but I can't share it with you just yet. Send $19.95 and I'll tell ya' was the tone I got from the beginning of the thread. I then began reading . . .

From what I learned on this forum a lot of people who are in this hobby for 1 to 3 years thinks their an expert. screw the fact you have 20 years of breeding exp. in the hobby. Thats what is wrong with this country people forget to respect the knowledge you get over the years. Like when you get told how you feed your snake col. by a beginer with 2 to 10 corns. If more people realy want to know and are willing to learn and not tell me I dont know what I am doing I wll shaire my info with you.

Let me just say that I work with teachers that have taught the same thing every year for 30+ years, you're darn right I probably know more than them. I haven't taught the same thing the same way in my 9 years.

But then later, Vinman states . . .

As time goes on people get use to do things the same way all the time I dont care how old or young a person is people a not used to change. this whole hobby was based on trial and error some ideas worked and some did not .

Which is it? Are you the expert that doesn't need to listen to anyone else since you've been breeding for 22+ years, or are you open to suggestions from someone like me that's only been doing this for 4 years and have been relatively successful? Personally, if Rich or Kathy or Don came out with this information I'd probably give it a shot. But compared to them, you are also a small fish in a big pond with only 60 snakes (even when you had 250) . . .

The statement concerning snakes being lactose intolerant and not eating baby pinks that have a full stomach is laughable. I can just see that little snake picking out pinks . . . 'oops not that one, too much milk, that's gonna hit me later!' Someone already stated it, but with the information I've read, herps are pretty opportunistic feeders. While they may prefer one prey item over another, I just can't see an animal surviving in the wild if it's going to be picky . . . and that's really just common sense!

Really quite the study in disseminating information over the internet.

Personally, I can't see myself trying this . . . ever. Several reasons really. I don't care what kind of magical potion worth of vitamins you give as a supplement, I don't think there's any replacement for the guts, brains, bones etc. you'd find in a mouse or full chick. Feeding just meat, whether it's from a chicken, turkey, or pig CANNOT replace what's found in a whole prey item even with the supplements given. (Same reason I can't understand the vegetarian diet as being healthy long term.) I also agree that the long term affects cannot be known in this case with only 2 1/2 years of 'study'. That's without even considering the heavy resource consumption by a breeding female. I've also read posts on people feeding whole chicks to their snakes and the that the smell coming out the other end is atrocious . . . not my cup of tea really. Most importantly I cannot see jeopardizing my sizeable investment in snakes/pets based on the information provided here concerning feeding chicken/turkey/pork meat to snakes.

Lastly, I need to comment on Dayoh wanting to visit Vinman's operation. My question is, after having been duct taped at knife point and beaten, who in their right mind posts their phone number and full address on the internet with everyone to see? Really?!

Now with all that said, it's really just my two cents, but it seems to be a really fishy/misinformed situation in my opinion.
D80

I leave my home info for people to me contact . I dont hide behind the computer anonymously like a wussy with a fake name . at least with me you know my name ,phone # and adress I would rather buy a snake from somebody that I have all their info. than some anonymous person that can change their handle anytime in another fake name. in a bogues new email acc. Because I got robed doesent mean that I have to live in fear just a little more careful who I let in my house You dont when somebody is setting you up. I got caught off my guard . never agin next time there will be blood spiled in this apt. and it wont be mine If I have to go to jail or deal with a long trial I will do what I have to do, so I try to avoid any problems. Were did you see me ask for any money? that is right you have to figuer some things out yourself you cant tell how much your snake can eat it? I dont care if it mice rats or chicks or meat chuncks you can tell a snake that has a good meal in it and one that is over fed . I gave a good answer feed a sm. meal and work your self up in size . This is not a good answer. give me a brake. I know I cant spell I am 41 very smart and cant spell well because I goffed off in class . this is a good exp. for your class . have fun now pay big time latter. you say you are good teacher I dont doubt this but you said that my snakes dont have bone in their diet If you read the post you would have seen that I give my snakes chicken necks The last time I looked the neck has bones in it, mater a fact it has a high bone content I also use a Ca: supplement.with vit. D3 Another thing the snake does not know that lactoss is bad for them. Just like geribles they have something in their spine that is toxic. the snake still eats them and intime will die, now how did we find this out somebody tried it out so they faild I give them credit In shows that someone took the chance that this might a good food item. like is said before this whole hobby was founded on trial error. how many snakes died from mite remedies before they found what works this is what we did and it is how we will find out more stuff in the future. dont put me down. THe fact that you said in your own words you think you know more and are better teacher with your 9 years than a teacher of 30 . You have no respect for your colleagues this shows what kind of person you realy are you are so full of yourself. the fact that that I only been doing this new diet for 2 1/2 years is a start we will see what happens in the future I will not hold back any info pos. or neg. I unlike you I am open to new ideas the fact if rich or don or cathy or me does it, will not change the end result. the out come will be the same. thank god I did not have a narrow minded teacher like you.

*jumps into conversation*

At this point, seeing as some people might be getting emotional, I w ould just like to say:

No need to get personal.

I have enjoyed and probably will continue to enjoy this forum.
This thread has been very informative and will probably continue to be.
I have yet to decide myself if I would try to feed my corn other prey than mice/rats, but
seeing as I only have one corn (my first) I'llprobably play it safe. For now.

I applaude Vinman for giving us this information. The beginning of this thread was perhaps
a bit...well... unconventional, but seing as there were quite many "hostile" replies, it might actually have been justified.

Now notice that nobody can force any of us into feeding our snakes anyhting else than what
we ourselves choose. Neat huh?! This is just a discussion!

I am 100% sure Vinman will inform us of any changes/problems/developments.
What if his snakes live to be 10+ or 15+ years?! Will we have to change our views? We might.
What if they die relatively early? Will Vinman be proven wrong? Maybe.

I'm sure I'll be here on this forum to find out.

everybody and take it easy.

-Sawsehel

You do what works for you and I will do what works for me If you dont like what I'm doing ( tuff )

It wasn't a dig at you, just putting in my $.02 worth.

Like Isaid just dont give me crap this works Ok heres the raw deal I ran out of money a few years back I went broke. My snakes didn't eat for over two weeks . I had to make a choice eather sell off my snakes and all my work goes into somebody else is hands or find a cheap food source.

With this statment is what i ment by if you can't afford proper snake food the sell up. IMHO a snake needs snake food, and a human needs human food, IE mice/rats/chicks for snakes and chicken/turkey/pork etc for humans.

That is just my opinion though, and i don't want to argue about it.

sawsehel well said i agree with your whole post above.