New motor for my vette...

Rich Z said:

Yes, as this will be part of the tuning process itself, and is a real good way to tell if you have everything tuned to optimum settings. I told him that peak horsepower isn't as important to me as acceleration and throttle response. More "seat of the pants" kind of thing more than bragging rights numbers. So I would much rather sacrifice a higher peak number to gain better low to mid range power, where you tend to be most of the time driving on the street. In some respects I think I would probably have liked a supercharger more so than the turbo chargers, but there were too many drawbacks with the superchargers that were available then. I got rear mounted turbos to help with weight distribution and to keep all that heat turbos generate out of the engine compartment. Plus there is no belt to throw with the turbos, and they just seem to be a sensible choice, as they use waste exhaust gases to operate instead of inflicting parasitic losses on the motor to make them work. Like anything else, there were compromises that needed to be picked from based on personal tastes.

Right now my vette puts down 529 rwhp and 514 rwtq, that you would think would be plenty for me. And actually it is. Quite frankly, the additional power is just icing to the cake for me. The new engine just happens to provide a lot more power, and it also allows me to remove the 6.5 psi restriction now in place on the max boost going to the engine. With all forged components and 6 bolts per cylinder for the heads, I can open this up as high as the turbos are able to go.

Of course, my tuner has already told me that he is going to set the rev limiter to 3500 rpm during the break-in procedure....

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Are you getting a new intercooler for your turbo's? I'd imagine those turbos would get a heck of a lot hotter at full boost as opposed to 6.5 psi.. but I'm not really familiar with corvette engines.. my 1.8t GTI stock put out about 9psi.. but i got it chipped and now it peaks at 20 and usually holds at 17 psi and any more than that and i'd need a bigger intercooler. But im guessing that your vette had a pretty large one for those twin turbos..

Haha If i had that car with the new engine i'd be way too tempted to rev that thing all the way up to redline before break in! Its probably best he's setting the rev limiter haha

mynamesrick said:

Are you getting a new intercooler for your turbo's? I'd imagine those turbos would get a heck of a lot hotter at full boost as opposed to 6.5 psi.. but I'm not really familiar with corvette engines.. my 1.8t GTI stock put out about 9psi.. but i got it chipped and now it peaks at 20 and usually holds at 17 psi and any more than that and i'd need a bigger intercooler. But im guessing that your vette had a pretty large one for those twin turbos..

Haha If i had that car with the new engine i'd be way too tempted to rev that thing all the way up to redline before break in! Its probably best he's setting the rev limiter haha

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Charge cooler... Get a spare A/C unit and cool it even more........:dancer:

mynamesrick said:

Are you getting a new intercooler for your turbo's? I'd imagine those turbos would get a heck of a lot hotter at full boost as opposed to 6.5 psi.. but I'm not really familiar with corvette engines.. my 1.8t GTI stock put out about 9psi.. but i got it chipped and now it peaks at 20 and usually holds at 17 psi and any more than that and i'd need a bigger intercooler. But im guessing that your vette had a pretty large one for those twin turbos..

Haha If i had that car with the new engine i'd be way too tempted to rev that thing all the way up to redline before break in! Its probably best he's setting the rev limiter haha

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Actually one of the beauties of the STS rear mounted turbos is that the air charge doesn't have to be cooled down that much just prior to going into the throttle body. I'm sure you've seen pics of underhood turbos glowing red hot, which you pretty much need to expect when they are so close to the exhaust ports on the heads. But of course, there are pros and cons to the rear mounted turbos as well just from the distance the air charge travels.

Some are even saying that I may need bigger turbos (perhaps even ones with ball bearings instead of the standard journal style bearings) to take full advantage of the increased air flow through the new motor. I'm really not all that concerned about that right now. Of course, if my current turbos give up the ghost, then that would be the time to consider an upgrade anyway.

Rich Z said:

Actually one of the beauties of the STS rear mounted turbos is that the air charge doesn't have to be cooled down that much just prior to going into the throttle body. I'm sure you've seen pics of underhood turbos glowing red hot, which you pretty much need to expect when they are so close to the exhaust ports on the heads. But of course, there are pros and cons to the rear mounted turbos as well just from the distance the air charge travels.

Some are even saying that I may need bigger turbos (perhaps even ones with ball bearings instead of the standard journal style bearings) to take full advantage of the increased air flow through the new motor. I'm really not all that concerned about that right now. Of course, if my current turbos give up the ghost, then that would be the time to consider an upgrade anyway.

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only one word comes to mind there. garrett. get some gt30 or 35rs. best turbos ever in my mind. im not a fan of remote mount turbos and even though everyone says that you need no intercooler to cool it, well you dont, its not hot as it would be on a normal set up, but also, if you have a front mount, or even a top mount on a normal in bay turbo set up. and put a meth kit on the cooling cycle of boost, nothing can beat that. my last car, a 91 civic hatch was only running 7 psi off a jackson racing blower. it was my first blown car and it was quite different than snails in other cars. no boost lag and it was nice.

pwargcm said:

only one word comes to mind there. garrett. get some gt30 or 35rs. best turbos ever in my mind. im not a fan of remote mount turbos and even though everyone says that you need no intercooler to cool it, well you dont, its not hot as it would be on a normal set up, but also, if you have a front mount, or even a top mount on a normal in bay turbo set up. and put a meth kit on the cooling cycle of boost, nothing can beat that. my last car, a 91 civic hatch was only running 7 psi off a jackson racing blower. it was my first blown car and it was quite different than snails in other cars. no boost lag and it was nice.

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Heck, I have no idea what model turbos I have in my car. Probably in the manual some where, but the chances of my finding that thing any time in the next decade are VERY slim.

Now the STS does have an intercooler but the air charge coming from the turbos isn't all that hot. Just being mounted in the back makes something like an 800 degree temperature difference in the turbos. So that's a lot of heat that doesn't get transferred to the incoming air charge. Also a huge reduction in heat that the oil is exposed to and pumped back to the crankcase.

You know I've heard people complaining about "lag" in the rear mounted turbos, but really, I don't notice anything that seems like a problem. Far from it, actually. Punching it in third gear is pretty much like being in a jet plane during takeoff. It just pushes you back into your seat, and you just HANG ON to the steering wheel!

There is already air in the inlet pipes and the intercooler, so it's not like the push of air when the turbos really start singing is dumping into a vacuum that has to fill up before the air charge gets into the throttle body. So it may be a softer transition then turbos up close and personal under the hood, but not all that much. And quite honestly, even this so-called "gentle" push can take you by surprise. A harder and more sudden push with that much "oomph" behind it (200+ additional horsepower with just 6.5 pounds of boost), can be enough to break things, or spin the wheels when you really don't want it to. Plus my headers are three inch collectors necked down to 2.5 inch inlet pipes for the turbos, so this in itself will accelerate the exhaust going into the turbos to help them spool up faster. I've had people tell me that headers aren't needed nor wanted with turbos, but I believe in a rear mounted system, they are VERY beneficial.

Heck even at fourth gear coming off of an on ramp on an interstate, I can keep my foot steady on the gas pedal and feel the power building in the motor and the speed increasing proportionally without having to press any further on the pedal. Very cool effect...

Rich Z said:

...Then I'm going to have that older engine put into Connie's pickup truck... She'll be about the only person around with a vette powered pickup truck, I would imagine... :laugh:

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You could always throw the old turbos on the wife's truck with the old motor. Make it an even bigger surprise for someone not expecting it.

Wednesday the drivetrain was extracted from the frame/body of my car. Pretty interesting watching the separation take place....



Chris discovered that one of my turbos has developed a seal problem and was leaking oil into the intake part of the turbo. So he's going to be sending them both back to STS to be rebuilt. But at least this was discovered before it developed into a more serious problem that could have destroyed the turbo.

Yesterday (Thursday) the guys got a late start, but the torque tube was separated from the transmission/differential, and then both the front and read cradles were taken outside to be cleaned up.

I believe today some of the new stuff is going to be assembled. I think at least the new carbon fiber driveshaft will be installed into the torque tube, and maybe more stuff will start to be put into place in the drivetrain. So it should be exciting to see this all coming together....

Thats pretty cool. I didn't know they could do that. How long do they think before it's all back together?

That is really interesting Rich. I've never seen that done.

tstephe3 said:

Thats pretty cool. I didn't know they could do that. How long do they think before it's all back together?

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I'm not exactly sure. Wednesday we found that one of my turbos has a bad seal, so we are sending them both back to the manufacturer to be rebuilt. Then today we found that the torque tube (that's what actually holds the driveshaft - that long aluminum tube in the video) has a bearing going bad, so I'm going to replace both of them while the guts are laying all over the floor. No telling what else might show up, but I figure that this is the time to fix anything that needs fixing or replacing. I've got over 90K miles on the car, so many of the wear items are getting worn by now. Also replacing all the rubber bushings in the suspension as well. These all take time to do. But better now then another 10K miles down the road and have to pay to have things pulled apart again after being towed to the shop.

I really don't like being without my car now that I have a bit more free time to be driving, but them's the breaks, I guess....

How's this thing coming along? Any updates?

WOW!

I had a 29ft motorhome that had a 454 in it and before it left the factory built the enigine to 550 horsepower.They did that so it was able to pull trailors the same size as the motor home itself.That motorhome was the fastest one around! I cant even imagine what that much horse power would be like in a corvette! Be Carefull! That engine is Sweet!

Unfortunately we discovered a problem with the new motor. The intake manifold just would not bolt up to the heads. So there is a problem somewhere that the people who put the block and heads together needs to address. So that motor is being sent back to them to figure out what the problem is, and resolve it.

That's just the latest delay. Prior to this one, I got sick, then the local guy working on the job got sick. Then his grandfather died, and a few days later, his wife's grandfather died. Then with all this going on, we had a hurricane move into the area. So my car has been sitting on the lift at his shop for just over a month now.

I have no idea how long it will take to get that motor back here and ready to be put onto the drivetrain. That motor is being shipping to Texas, so even ignoring what they (LME) need to do to it to resolve the problem, we're talking about a week just for transit time... So I'm thinking I will be lucky to have it back by Christmas time.... :crying:

ahh sorry to hear about all that! the wait must be killing you! I'd be counting the hours!

well at least you'll be able to drive it all winter.. my muscle car is in storage, and my little tuner is back to its stock tuning for a few months.. darn MN winters!

Well I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product!

Any news on the transplant Rich?

Rich Z said:

Well, over the past 6 months or so, I sold off a big chunk of my gun collection and decided to buy a new motor and drivetrain for my vette with some of that money. Kind of trading in one hobby for another, I guess.

Anyway, the new 427 Warhawk motor came in to my tuner's place, so Connie and I ran over there yesterday so I could get my first look in person at it.

Honestly, I was surprised at how SMALL it actually was. Seemed to me it should have been a lot bigger for some reason. I guess it is surprising that so much power can some from something that small.

Anyway, I took some video of it and threw it together here:



My car will be going into the shop on 10/26 to get the transplant done. Then I'm going to have that older engine put into Connie's pickup truck... She'll be about the only person around with a vette powered pickup truck, I would imagine... :laugh:

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nice i love corvettes nice motor too. my uncle has a chevell ss with a 502 big block in it my girls dad have a 1991 silverado 2500 with a corvette motor in it. itsa firedepartment truck so it has to be fast

Well, it's been a real fiasco lately. A while back we discovered that the intake manifold wouldn't bolt up to the heads. So the entire engine was shipped back to LME in Texas. They took off the heads, did measurements, and determined it was the head manufacturer's problem. So they shipped the heads to World Products in New York. Rather than replace the heads and then have to have LME do all the machining they did all over again on those heads, the fixed the mounting holes and guaranteed the fix for the life of the engine. Then the heads were shipped back to LME, who then ported the intake manifold to match exactly with the heads, for free. This was to alleviate my fears that the manifold bolt problem was indicative of something more serious and the ports would not align properly between the heads and the manifold.

So the engine finally got back to the shop in Blountstown, FL on Tuesday. So I've been over there every day while the build continues. And I am planning on being over there every day till it is finished. But it's slow going. Just about everything that needs to be mounted to that Warhawk engine needs to be modified to fit properly. So much for a "drop-in" engine upgrade.... :angry01: I've been without my car for nearly three months now.

No telling how much longer this will go on. My original plan to have the tuner have everything at the shop so I could just bring the car in, have the swap done, and then get my car back home didn't go even close to the way I had envisioned it. I really can't say I would recommend this process to anyone.... I certainly wouldn't have done it had I known all these headaches were awaiting me. Maybe I'll think differently when this is all said and done, but right now, nope, not what I had in mind at all...

Custom porting should make the intake and heads flow nice. Good luck with the rest of the work. Look forward to hearing how well it performs when done.

Rich,

Was this you with the new motor?

tsst said:

Rich,

Was this you with the new motor?

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Nope... My car is STILL in the shop.....

When I got that Warhawk engine back, I wasn't real crazy about the idea that World Products was going to fill in those incorrectly drilled intake manifold bolt holes but they offered to guarantee them for life, and LME offered to port the intake manifold to exactly match the heads. So I figured what the heck.

But when I looked at those holes World Products drilled, damn.... But I was getting antsy to get my car back and accepted the "work", regardless of the poor job they obviously did.







Meanwhile I had my Fuji camera at the shop and took a bunch of closeups of the engine just at random. When I got back home, I downloaded the images to my PC and just picked one out at random to make sure the download went OK before deleting the images from the camera. And this is what I saw..





Obviously, the game was over as far as I was concerned. I was expecting a court battle when I told the builder that I was just rejecting this new engine completely and wanted my money back or a new engine that was NOT build using World Product products. But luckily LME immediately accepted the consideration to build me a new engine, this time using a RHS block and different heads. That new engine should be done today, and is supposed to ship out of Texas on Monday.

So we'll see, I guess...