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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

questions about morphs
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:53 PM   #1
darkpbstar
questions about morphs

ok so I have a female normal and female okeetee and I was just wondering what bred with these woudl make what. Or what would be most cool looking to breed to have the best outcome? I'd like to breed them after a while, they are still young, one is 1 year and 8 months, the ohter is only 9 months, but eventually I'd love to have little corns from my first two, and keep the family going on forever. thanks.
 
Old 04-19-2005, 12:05 AM   #2
Vinman
no true okeetees you will have normals. Okeetee is not a mutation it is a localitly. Some might look like okeetees so you can call them okeetee phase
 
Old 04-19-2005, 12:54 AM   #3
Joejr14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinman
no true okeetees you will have normals. Okeetee is not a mutation it is a localitly. Some might look like okeetees so you can call them okeetee phase
Semantics.

If it looks like an okeetee, it's an okeetee.

Would you call a butt ass ugly normal from the Hunt Club an okeetee?
 
Old 04-19-2005, 02:13 AM   #4
Menhir
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinman
Okeetee is not a mutation it is a localitly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joejr14
If it looks like an okeetee, it's an okeetee.

Would you call a butt ass ugly normal from the Hunt Club an okeetee?
I think you should both change your semantics
If you just say Okeetee and mean the locality, it's no matter how they look, it's just the place where you collected them.
Imho - Okeetee is most of the time used for the Okeetee-Phase and therefore Joe is right, it's the look that counts.

You won't find a male that produces "cool" or "rare" Offspring with both of them. If you want nice Okeetee-Phase, get one nice male. I'm quite shure that you can also produce nice normals with that male and the other female.
 
Old 04-19-2005, 10:22 AM   #5
Vinman
Thumbs down

Menhir & joejr14 when you get a animal that is from pure Jasper Co. stock that is a okeetee I dont care what the animal looks like. whem a animal looks like a perfect okeetee ( big black borders) if it is not a pure jasper Co. stock it is a okeetee phase . just like miami phase there is a dirffrenance between a pure miami and a miami phase most corns in the hobby are not pure miami that is why we call miami phase. only true miami are called miami the rest are called miami phase. This is the only way of makeing sure that if a person that wants a pure okeetee gets what they want. this is why we use the term phase the loves are thinking of droping the name okeetee and useing the name classic corn. by using the term phase is the only way to distingush between a pure and a look a like. To some people dont care if it is pure or not and then you have the pureist.It is more professional to use the term phase. since most people do not have pure okeetees. Another thing the okeetee look goes from SC to north Fl . So if i catch a corn in Jacksonville Fl with thick black borders and a bright orange back round then it is a okeetee, NO it is a Jacksonville corn with a okeetee pattren hence the term okeetee phase. So the snake would be a pure Jacksonville corn in okeetee phase. this whole thing is stupid if it is a okeetee then it is from Jasper Co. if not it is just a normal pretty corn. the name okeetee is a localaty and people should use the right terms. Most abuse the term okeetee that does not make it right!!!
 
Old 04-19-2005, 10:37 AM   #6
Traci1
my opinion that I posted in another thread....

Quote:
I think it's that too many sellers are labeling every normal as an Okeetee, and the "newbie" buyers don't know any better. Now of course they could aways say it's a locality Okeetee, but I sure wish they'd just name them according to the area of origin. "Jasper County Corns" for example. Save the Okeetee or Okeetee phase name for the "look" and name the locality corns by the area from which they originated. Just my opinion.
I think most people are thinking of that "ideal look" when they think of an Okeetee, so in my opinion naming the locality animals based on where they originated from would make things a lot easier. Again, just my opinion.
 
Old 04-19-2005, 10:50 AM   #7
Hurley
Quote:
the name okeetee is a localaty and people should use the right terms. Most abuse the term okeetee that does not make it right!!!
That's your opinion and definition. Language is an ever evolving form. The term "Okeetee" has taken on additional meanings, whether you choose to acknowledge them or accept them. Okeetee is used to define a locality and I have no beef with this and I doubt many do. For those that value the locality of an animal, specifying "Locality Okeetee" helps drive home their meaning. Specifying "Locality Okeetee from Jasper county" or "from the Okeetee Hunt Club" is even better.

On the flip side, the term Okeetee has come to also be related to a look, a color phase. Whether or not you agree with it, it's become reality. The majority of the time we hear the name Okeetee any more, it is related to the color phase of the animal, regardless of locality unless locality is specified.

What you call abuse of the term, I call evolution of language. Right or wrong is an opinion of yours, you're entitled to it. I am entitled to continue to happily call Okeetee phased animals Okeetees and think that I am right to do so. I think neither opinion is wrong, but telling everyone else that they have to abide by your definition because you say so...that's wishful thinking. Good luck to you on that. The market will decide the lingo. The people in the hobby will decide the lingo.
 
Old 04-19-2005, 11:17 AM   #8
E. g. guttata
Sorry vin, but I have to disagree with your definition of an okeetee. Now, an okeetee CAN be classified as the animal from that locality, but how much longer will that last?? You can't go catch any more from the hunt club, so then it will have to change to "from locality stock" (which I have seen). How long will that last? I'm not sure that, even with the registry opening here soon, that this definition will last too long at all. However, defining an okeetee by the look of the snake. You may disagree with this, but it seems to me that people are breeding for that specific look more than locality. I have yet to see a nasty okeetee. They all follow the same guidlines, bright orange background, dark saddles, wide black boarders. Show me an okeetee that is purely locality that doesn't follow these guidelines. Better yet, show me an okeetee from your PERSONAL stock that doesn't follow those guidelines. ANYONE show me one locality okeetee from their stock that doesn't follow those guidelines. I would really love to see someone prove that the locality of the animal matters more than the look. Until someone can show me that an okeetee they own is ugly as sin, then I will continue to call snakes okeetee purely by look.
 
Old 04-19-2005, 11:19 AM   #9
Serpwidgets
I think Joe Pierce put it best when he said that what people are calling "pure locality Okeetees" are actually Okeetee Phase corns that were collected from the Hunt Club.

If 95% of the population uses the word to mean a look, then within that population, that is the implied meaning of the word. This is called context. Any word can have different meanings depending on the context in which it's used, and "Okeetee" is no exception.
 
Old 04-19-2005, 11:32 AM   #10
Serpwidgets
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkpbstar
ok so I have a female normal and female okeetee and I was just wondering what bred with these woudl make what. Or what would be most cool looking to breed to have the best outcome?
If you like something in particular about a normal, breed it to a normal with similar desireable characteristics. This will give you the best chance to produce offspring with similar characteristics, or even improve on what it is you like about them.
 

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